|
Meh
Posts: 5,317
Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Blogging your mom.
|
A Gei Question yes gei is spelled that way on purpose. I hate going through the trouble of typing out g ay only to have it edited.
Anyway my question is a hypothetical one.
Let us say that cloning technology has progressed to the point where an human clone can be made with ease, and that the clone will live a long healthy life.
My question is this, would a clone of a homosexual also be a homosexual? Your answer and reasoning behind it please.
|
|
Lurking around...
Posts: 4,227
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Netherlands
|
I don't know how far you are in the cloning business, but I don't think they can, yet, make a clone that will live a "long, healthy" life.
The first cloned sheep, Dolly, was a perfect copy of it's original, but coped with many problems untill it died not being very healthy anymore.
Human cloning has not been done (not proven anyway), and there is no way to know if the clone will live a long happy life.
But I'll go with the topic, if a clone could be made that can live a long healthy life, then I think that it would also be homosexual if the original human was homosexual.
There has been much research on homosexuality, one of the conclusions of some researches has been that homosexuality is a deviation of the brain (the same can be said of heterosexuality ofcourse, I think it is just a setting in the brain). So if you would make a clone, a perfect copy of something else, it would inherit the flaw/setting of homosexuality. So that's my thought: it will be transferred to the clone.
Let it be clear that I have nothing against homosexual people, I know a few and they are all good and fun people with whom I can easily live and some are friends of mine. (explaining just in case someone decides to take me on because of the "deviation in the brain" sentence)
|
|
Meh
Posts: 5,317
Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Blogging your mom.
|
Spawn I don't know how far you are in the cloning business, but I don't think they can, yet, make a clone that will live a "long, healthy" life.
The first cloned sheep, Dolly, was a perfect copy of it's original, but coped with many problems untill it died not being very healthy anymore.
Human cloning has not been done (not proven anyway), and there is no way to know if the clone will live a long happy life.
This much i know, thats why I made it a hypothetical question.
|
|
Hello!
Posts: 31,659
Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Nowhere
|
Wait. Gay is edited?
edit: apparently not, which makes me confused as to why it was named "gei"...
|
bleeper
Nerd
Posts: N/A
Join Date: N/A
|
Apperently gas can not help it
|
|
Meh
Posts: 5,317
Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Blogging your mom.
|
Daisy Wait. Gay is edited?
edit: apparently not, which makes me confused as to why it was named "gei"...
I always thought it was.... hmm. Maybe is ***.
edit: Yep, *** is edited.
|
|
God
Posts: 35,907
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sainte Maxime
|
Why would gay be edited anyways? it's not like it's an insult. I remember i went to montana on vacation and we passed this two called Gayville.
___________________
The Dragons are Gone!
|
|
vs. The World
Posts: 8,318
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: United Kingdom
|
Yeah, it's weird. I think that being gay is genetic, so the clone would also be gay.
___________________
|
|
anti-social commentary
Posts: 28,017
Join Date: Jul 2002
|
I don't really know how cloning works, but if the question is simply whether being gay is genetic, I'd have to say no. I'm not a scientist, but it seems to me that it'd be very unlikely for there to be genes that dictate your sexual attractions, rather than life experience.
|
|
Captain
Posts: 9,015
Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Bridges
|
The reason that gayness isn't genetic is because, were it so, it would have been wiped out eons ago. Think about it. Procreation is necessary for genes to move from generation to generation. Homosexuals do not procreate. Therefore the "gay gene," were it to exist, would die in their loins.
___________________
TendoGamer I've lost count of how many shirts you've ruined over the past six years with that tic of yours.
|
|
Meh
Posts: 5,317
Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Blogging your mom.
|
DeathDaddy The reason that gayness isn't genetic is because, were it so, it would have been wiped out eons ago. Think about it. Procreation is necessary for genes to move from generation to generation. Homosexuals do not procreate. Therefore the "gay gene," were it to exist, would die in their loins.
The common argument against that is that in the past homosexuals were "forced" by society to be in hetero relationships which would lead to passing on of the gene.
|
|
Captain
Posts: 9,015
Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Bridges
|
Psionyx The common argument against that is that in the past homosexuals were "forced" by society to be in hetero relationships which would lead to passing on of the gene.
I've heard the argument and it's weak. If a gay man was "forced" to get aroused by a woman and have sex with her, then he wasn't really gay by virtue of the fact that he sprung a boner for her. Personally, I think that homosexuality is a fetish of some sort.
*shrugs*
Now, I'm going to go and eat cake.
___________________
TendoGamer I've lost count of how many shirts you've ruined over the past six years with that tic of yours.
|
|
too busy being delicious!
Posts: 11,815
Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: the farm
|
bleeper Apperently gas can not help it
No. I can't either. *fart*
|
|
Sabor de Soledad
Posts: 32,290
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NM
|
DeathDaddy Personally, I think that homosexuality is a fetish of some sort.
That's because you have no comprehension in the least what it means to be gay and understand that homosexuality goes beyond sexual feelings and into deeper emotional bonding.
___________________
I was young and confused and your mom didn't want me around no more. Now pass me dem damn collard greens! |
|
Captain
Posts: 9,015
Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Bridges
|
Xavius That's because you have no comprehension in the least what it means to be gay and understand that homosexuality goes beyond sexual feelings and into deeper emotional bonding.
There's little reason for me to elaborate on my belief because you'll just go back to saying that I'm not gay -- the integrity of my ideas must be fundamentally flawed, yes?
By the same token, I will assume that you also write-off any sort of musings from a psychologist concerning the nature of, say, masochism as invalid unless this psychologist did derive some sexual gratification from skewering his testicles with a fork.
___________________
TendoGamer I've lost count of how many shirts you've ruined over the past six years with that tic of yours.
|
|
anti-social commentary
Posts: 28,017
Join Date: Jul 2002
|
Xavius That's because you have no comprehension in the least what it means to be gay and understand that homosexuality goes beyond sexual feelings and into deeper emotional bonding.
Except that emotional bonding is not sexually driven. You don't need to be gay to have a deep emotional bond with a member of the same sex. You love a member of either sex because it's human to love. Only after you add sexuality to the mix does it become infatuation. But the deep emotional bond certainly doesn't require homosexuality to exist any more than it requires heterosexuality to exist.
|
|
Sabor de Soledad
Posts: 32,290
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NM
|
DeathDaddy There's little reason for me to elaborate on my belief because you'll just go back to saying that I'm not gay -- the integrity of my ideas must be fundamentally flawed, yes?
By the same token, I will assume that you also write-off any sort of musings from a psychologist concerning the nature of, say, masochism as invalid unless this psychologist did derive some sexual gratification from skewering his testicles with a fork.
If I thought you had any inkling at all to having the professionalism and education of a psychologist, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but as a kid blurting on the Internet his ramblings about homosexuality being a simple fetish, I can't really take you seriously. One reason being that fetishism requires an object or obsession with a body part to be truly called a fetish. In healthy, life-lasting relationships between two gay people (yes they do exist, virginia!) are any indication, gay partners hopefully rank above the label of "object".
Deacon Except that emotional bonding is not sexually driven. You don't need to be gay to have a deep emotional bond with a member of the same sex. You love a member of either sex because it's human to love. Only after you add sexuality to the mix does it become infatuation. But the deep emotional bond certainly doesn't require homosexuality to exist any more than it requires heterosexuality to exist.
I'm talking more about the feelings of true romantic love instead of the emotional feelings of compassion. Although emotional bonds exist between all humans, there are also deep romantic bonds that sway us toward females or males. They don't necessarily have to be sexual, but they are undeniable feelings of yearning and giddiness brought on by a certain gender.
If you can tell me that if you had an accident that somehow paralyzed you from the waist down (or God forbid your genitals were taken in the night by magical means), you might consider being with a man for the rest of your life, I would say that you calling yourself a heterosexual then was simply referring to your sexual organs' desire to be with a woman.
But I don't think you would say that because even when our sexual organs or ability to have sex are gone, we still consider ourselves heterosexual or homosexual - becuase these are aspects that are our self-conceptions and social identities that go beyond who we do and don't want to ****. Anyway, that's my perception on how I feel and the concensus of how other gay people feel so take that as you will.
___________________
I was young and confused and your mom didn't want me around no more. Now pass me dem damn collard greens!
|
|
Mr. Tambourine Man
Posts: 10,523
Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia
|
DeathDaddy I've heard the argument and it's weak. If a gay man was "forced" to get aroused by a woman and have sex with her, then he wasn't really gay by virtue of the fact that he sprung a boner for her. Personally, I think that homosexuality is a fetish of some sort.
*shrugs*
Now, I'm going to go and eat cake.
I'm straight and I can tell you with near certainty that if a man were to put my dick in his mouth I would get an erection. You would, too.
___________________
|
|
Captain
Posts: 9,015
Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Bridges
|
Xavius If I thought you had any inkling at all to having the professionalism and education of a psychologist, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, but as a kid blurting on the Internet his ramblings about homosexuality being a simple fetish, I can't really take you seriously. One reason being that fetishism requires an object or obsession with a body part to be truly called a fetish. In healthy, life-lasting relationships between two gay people (yes they do exist, virginia!) are any indication, gay partners hopefully rank above the label of "object".
Very arrogant of you, Xavius. It's quite alright. I didn't expect you to offer anything more reasonable.
And, yes, I do think that homosexuality is a fetish of some sort, or otherwise something that develops in the psyche. But I stand firmly by the idea that it is not genetic. And, as for defining how a fetish requires an obsession with an object or body part? Well, maybe I just don't have one of those fancy detachable penises, but most penises are body parts. And, with that in mind, a homosexual could really enjoy that penis and then find the components of companionship with that male. I hardly find that absurd. You seem to have been presumptuous (not surprising with your arrogant tone thus assumed) in deciding that when I said "fetish," I meant that it was all-encompassing the person. That the gay man was therefore reduced to just a horny butthumper, and abandoned other factors. But, as I was dealing with homosexuality and sex, I addressed that section of it. Hmmm.
Dawson I'm straight and I can tell you with near certainty that if a man were to put my dick in his mouth I would get an erection. You would, too.
Normally, I think the penis stands erect when it's put into any orifice... so unless he managed to get Comrade Wobbly in an odd moment, I don't see him slapping his lips around a floppy companion. Secondly, it's all about the orgasm. You can pop a boner from mysterious sources sometimes. But you don't really blow a load at random times. At least I can't seem to orgasm unless the thought associated is desirable. Oh well.
___________________
TendoGamer I've lost count of how many shirts you've ruined over the past six years with that tic of yours.
|
|
God
Posts: 35,907
Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sainte Maxime
|
here's a joke i just came up with
What would we get if we cloned dawson?
...
a gay couple!!
___________________
The Dragons are Gone!
|
|
anti-social commentary
Posts: 28,017
Join Date: Jul 2002
|
Xavius I'm talking more about the feelings of true romantic love instead of the emotional feelings of compassion. Although emotional bonds exist between all humans, there are also deep romantic bonds that sway us toward females or males. They don't necessarily have to be sexual, but they are undeniable feelings of yearning and giddiness brought on by a certain gender.
If you can tell me that if you had an accident that somehow paralyzed you from the waist down (or God forbid your genitals were taken in the night by magical means), you might consider being with a man for the rest of your life, I would say that you calling yourself a heterosexual then was simply referring to your sexual organs' desire to be with a woman.
But I don't think you would say that because even when our sexual organs or ability to have sex are gone, we still consider ourselves heterosexual or homosexual - becuase these are aspects that are our self-conceptions and social identities that go beyond who we do and don't want to ****. Anyway, that's my perception on how I feel and the concensus of how other gay people feel so take that as you will.
I wasn't speaking about horniness, or just wanting to screw someone. Sexuality is more complex than that, and it bleeds into our feelings. The feeling of romantic love is the feeling of emotional bonding, which one can acheive separate from sexuality, with that sexuality laid into it.
Take Daisy and I for example. We're best friends and we're also in love. If the sexuality of her being a girl and me being a guy wasn't there, we'd still be best friends. Our emotional bond is close because we identify with each other and admire and respect each other. When you add the sexuality aspect to it (once again I mean simply us being compatible sexes who are attracted to each other, and not screwing or anything) there's romantic love. So what I'm saying is that to credit homosexuality with your deep emotional bonds to other men is ludicrous, because that has nothing to do with your sexuality. If you want to lay homosexuality on top of it to get to infatuation that's fine, but the actual bond itself is not a product of homosexuality any more than mine is built entirely upon my heterosexuality.
|
|
Overkill/Undercover
Posts: 6,969
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Well I love in a house in the Northeast U.S., playing my Nintendo DS.
|
I belive cloning and homosexuality is evil already so.........a gay clone? Well id REALLY hate that.
___________________
Can I come over your house? We can play Doom.-*lil Link*
|
|
Sabor de Soledad
Posts: 32,290
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NM
|
Why do you beg to be a wench?
___________________
I was young and confused and your mom didn't want me around no more. Now pass me dem damn collard greens!
|
|
Overkill/Undercover
Posts: 6,969
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Well I love in a house in the Northeast U.S., playing my Nintendo DS.
|
Its my opinion. I believe both are wrong and disgusting.
___________________
Can I come over your house? We can play Doom.-*lil Link*
|
|
Gallant and Giddy
Posts: 18,247
Join Date: Jun 2003
|
I can understand if you don't like cloning, but if you would idslike the clone itself, you are an idiot.
___________________
Mahatma Ghandi I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Brawl- 2320-5856-7241
|
Shivan
Nerd
Posts: N/A
Join Date: N/A
|
kajiaisu Its my opinion. I believe both are wrong and disgusting.
Even though you believe that, it is still an opinion. And other people do not think the same way.
Now, here are my opinions.
Cloning is wrong, but let's be a bit more specific. Cloning organs is much different than cloning a complete human being. Now there are advantages of doing both, but with one you are playing God. With the former you are not creating life by cloning a lung. So therefore it can't be considered playing God. They mass produce just about everything, if they started mass producing real life than we have a huge problem. With the organs they can save lives.
Homosexuality is something none of us here can speak about, other than Xavius and others who are gay. It's just like someone trying to relate to something they have never gone through themselves. You weren't there so you don't know.
Everything we say about our beliefs on the homosexuality issue is just an assumption, a belief. An opinion very much like XIAS's above. Nothing more.
We all judge others and put them down for being different. When we don't even know what different is. Because we can't be different from who we are. And when we break down every human being on this planet we are all of only one race. A Human being is a mammal. One that needs the same the next one needs. Sally likes to wear her hair short, while Kimberly likes her hair to reach her waist. Tom enjoys sports, though Greg is more of a computer person and likes to stay inside.
Different isn't a bad thing, though one thing is for sure. When you want to discuss why Greg is the way he is you don't go to Tom.
When you want to know why Sally likes short hair you don't listen to Kimberly's prediction on the matter.
What Xavius wants is his deal, stop trying to scientifically prove why Xavius is how he is and just accept him. You don't have to accept what he likes, I don't like sports and one of my best friends loves it. But that isn't why I am his friend. I am his friend because it just happened. A connection grew and we enjoyed spending time together.
Maybe this kinda runs off topic. But I don't give a damn. People are sad. Let's treat black people like dogs because their skin is darker than us. Let's scowl at the other religions because they believe something different.
Since when is different new?
"You laugh at me because I am different. I laugh at you because your all the same."
-- Vicki Imbornoni
|
|
Friend of the Friendless
Posts: 18,103
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Houston
|
I dont think the Clone will be Homesexual unless it really turned out to be genetic. Then we could exterminate the Gene. 
___________________
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. -Thomas Jefferson,
|
|
anti-social commentary
Posts: 28,017
Join Date: Jul 2002
|
Shivan "You laugh at me because I am different. I laugh at you because your all the same."
-- Vicki Imbornoni
I like how thousands of kids buy shirts with this slogan every day from popular mall outlets, to show how different they are. Go counter-cultures! 
Homosexuality is something none of us here can speak about, other than Xavius and others who are gay. It's just like someone trying to relate to something they have never gone through themselves. You weren't there so you don't know.
Everything we say about our beliefs on the homosexuality issue is just an assumption, a belief. An opinion very much like XIAS's above. Nothing more.
We can't discuss assumptions now? Opinions aren't valid unless they're actually facts? Xavius is gay, but that doesn't make him any better a final arbiter on the nature of homosexuality on the genetic or psychological level than anyone else who wants to bullshit this thread up with their opinion.
|
|
Sabor de Soledad
Posts: 32,290
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NM
|
Just look to my brain, dummies.
___________________
I was young and confused and your mom didn't want me around no more. Now pass me dem damn collard greens!
|
|
Overkill/Undercover
Posts: 6,969
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Well I love in a house in the Northeast U.S., playing my Nintendo DS.
|
Keazu I can understand if you don't like cloning, but if you would idslike the clone itself, you are an idiot.
I woulod kill the clone..I dont want it to be butt****ing something in the middle of the street with kids around. Cloning and clones are wrong, God created us, humans should not be able to create humans without sexual intercourse.
___________________
Can I come over your house? We can play Doom.-*lil Link*
|
Shivan
Nerd
Posts: N/A
Join Date: N/A
|
Deacon I like how thousands of kids buy shirts with this slogan every day from popular mall outlets, to show how different they are. Go counter-cultures!
We can't discuss assumptions now? Opinions aren't valid unless they're actually facts? Xavius is gay, but that doesn't make him any better a final arbiter on the nature of homosexuality on the genetic or psychological level than anyone else who wants to bullshit this thread up with their opinion.
Stop trying to find a little loophole to turn the conversation to your side of the table. First of all, you can't speak from Xavius' point of view. And that is what I meant. You can discuss your opinions but Xavius knows 10x more on the situation. Arguing with him about the issue of homosexuality is like arguing with God. Apparently God is God and God has to be right. Xavius is gay therefore his argument holds so much more than yours. Anything you say to go against him is nothing more than dog ****. You can't scientifically explain why Homosexuality exists, and you never will be able to.
But go ahead, express your opinions, discuss your thoughts on the situation. Please elaborate on why you think the black pen is blue.
|
|
Sabor de Soledad
Posts: 32,290
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NM
|
 For the love of Pete, you are obviously trying to win Wench OTW now. So clones have no control over their innate need to buttsex "something" with kids watching?
I woulod kill the clone..I dont want it to be butt****ing something in the middle of the street with kids around. Cloning and clones are wrong, God created us, humans should not be able to create humans without sexual intercourse.
__________________
___________________
I was young and confused and your mom didn't want me around no more. Now pass me dem damn collard greens!
|
|
anti-social commentary
Posts: 28,017
Join Date: Jul 2002
|
Shivan Stop trying to find a little loophole to turn the conversation to your side of the table. First of all, you can't speak from Xavius' point of view. And that is what I meant. You can discuss your opinions but Xavius knows 10x more on the situation. Arguing with him about the issue of homosexuality is like arguing with God. Apparently God is God and God has to be right. Xavius is gay therefore his argument holds so much more than yours. Anything you say to go against him is nothing more than dog ****. You can't scientifically explain why Homosexuality exists, and you never will be able to.
So by that same logic, someone who is suicidal is the authority on suicide from a genetic or psychological standpoint? Someone with cancer is guaranteed to know more than any cancer-free folks about the causes of cancer? Are pedophiles more in the know about the psychological and genetic stimulations for pedophilia?
Not that I'm comparing homosexuality to any of these things, but just because someone's gay doesn't mean dick about what they know of the genetic and psychological causes for homosexuality. Now they might be more able to discuss events in their childhood that might have led to it, but in the case of someone arguing that it's genetic, being gay doesn't make you a geneticist.
Besides, have you ever heard the phrase, "Cannot see the forest for the trees?" It could be that being gay actually gives someone a worse, more myopic understanding of the entire situation. In the case of genetics it still doesn't matter, but really that's my whole point.
And kajiasu, please shut the hell up if you can't discuss things intelligently.
|
