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NerdSaturday, July 28th 2007.

MrSnuggles

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Put down the Koran and walk away slowly.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--vandalismquran0727jul27,0,6882662.story



NEW YORK (AP) _ A 23-year-old man was arrested Friday on hate-crime charges after he threw a Quran in a toilet at Pace University on two separate occasions, police said.

Stanislav Shmulevich of Brooklyn was arrested on charges of criminal mischief and aggravated harassment, both hate crimes, police said. It was unclear if he was a student at the school. A message left at the Shmulevich home was not immediately returned.

The Islamic holy book was found in a toilet at Pace's lower Manhattan campus by a teacher on Oct. 13. A student discovered another book in a toilet on Nov. 21, police said.

Muslim activists had called on Pace University to crack down on hate crimes after the incidents. As a result, the university said it would offer sensitivity training to its students.

The school was accused by Muslim students of not taking the incident seriously enough at first. Pace classified the first desecration of the holy book as an act of vandalism, but university officials later reversed themselves and referred the incident to the New York Police Department's hate crimes unit.

ok so let me get this straight, burning a flag is speech, porno is speech, burning a bible is probably speech, but DONT YOU DARE throw that koran in the toilet, THATS A HATE CRIME!!!

i mean, come on, wheres the ACLU(ahem, advance) when you need em? wheres the lefties that proclaim to be the champions of free speech?
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NerdSaturday, July 28th 2007.

Formless

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Who gives a shit, its a fucking book.
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Daisy

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Just going by the part your quoted because I didn't read the entire article:

Yeah that's pretty stupid. If it was his own copy of the Koran then he should be allowed to do whatever he wants with it. If he stole it from the library or another student, then yeah, he should get in some amount of trouble, but more for theft than anything. It shouldn't be a hate crime... unless he set it on fire first and then threw it at a group of Muslim students. Then I could see that being construed as a hate crime, but simply throwing a book, which he obviously doesn't deem holy, shouldn't be considered anything other than some guy being an asshole.

People are retarded.
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Dolphin

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Yup, ridiculous. I doubt he'll be found guilty though.
NerdSaturday, July 28th 2007.

Caster13

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MrSnuggles

wheres the lefties that proclaim to be the champions of free speech?



Hey, I'm right here.

I think throwing the Koran into a toilet is speech equivalent to burning the flag.
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NerdSaturday, July 28th 2007.

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Well, I guess it depends if the intent was to intimidate or scare a muslim person. If he'd said, "Here's what I think of your fucking Quran bitch!" and then threw it down the toilet. That might be a hate crime...I dunno.
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NerdSaturday, July 28th 2007.

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For what it's worth, I think the very term "hate crime" is moronic and pointless. Billybob isn't more culpable for lynching a black guy than the husband who strangles his wife because she won't do the dishes like he asks.

It's not a crime to think; it's a crime to act.
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MrSnuggles


ok so let me get this straight, burning a flag is speech, porno is speech, burning a bible is probably speech, but DONT YOU DARE throw that koran in the toilet, THATS A HATE CRIME!!!


Whats wrong with porn? What do you have against taped exhibitionism?

I never heard of any story of anyone burning a bible for any reason. There has been instances of vandalism of churches and statues of the virgin Mary.

Game Guru

Well, I guess it depends if the intent was to intimidate or scare a muslim person. If he'd said, "Here's what I think of your fucking Quran bitch!" and then threw it down the toilet. That might be a hate crime...I dunno.


I agree
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NerdSaturday, July 28th 2007.

MrSnuggles

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BEan

Whats wrong with porn? What do you have against taped exhibitionism?


i have a problem with porn being called "Free speech" and a koran in a toilet being called a hate crime.
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Anthony

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At this rate, in less than 10 years Sha'ria law will be in place in over 40% of the U.S. This Government shouldn't be bending backwards for ANY religion, period.
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Anthony

At this rate, in less than 10 years Sha'ria law will be in place in over 40% of the U.S. This Government shouldn't be bending backwards for ANY religion, period.


What is Sha'ria law?
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MrSnuggles

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sharia law is islamic law straight out of the koran.
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NerdSunday, July 29th 2007.

Dawson

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Anthony

At this rate, in less than 10 years Sha'ria law will be in place in over 40% of the U.S. This Government shouldn't be bending backwards for ANY religion, period.


It won't happen that fast, but there is trouble ahead for all nations that allow Muslims in to the country. Trying to make compatible two cultures that are fundamentally incompatible can only lead to disaster.
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Anthony

At this rate, in less than 10 years Sha'ria law will be in place in over 40% of the U.S. This Government shouldn't be bending backwards for ANY religion, period.




I agree that sharia law is really bad news. Only morons want it. But the Christian laws in place right now is just has stupid.
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Robjomak

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I never heard of any story of anyone burning a bible for any reason.


Erm

Google search or something.

I agree that sharia law is really bad news. Only morons want it. But the Christian laws in place right now is just has stupid.


Tell me about it. Murder laws totally need to be repealed. On an unrelated note, Buu, where do you live?

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Batist

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French Riviera vacation time, Montpellier time of year. yes, both in France.
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Robjomak

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A little slow on the uptake today, Buu?
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Batist

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Why, because i should be embarassed to live in France?
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Robjomak

ErmTell me about it. Murder laws totally need to be repealed...


Of course, it was only through Christianity humanity ever realised that murder is wrong, unless of course when murdering homosexuals, adulterists,
fornicators, heretics, apostates, atheists, disobedient children, etc., their death is the will of God.





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Daisy

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Majinbuu

Why, because i should be embarassed to live in France?


I thought he was implying the whole Sharia law taking over France thing that has the rest of the muslim-hating/fearful world freaked out.

NerdSunday, July 29th 2007.

Batist

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sharia law taking over france? lol. It's not happening and it will never happen. If a majority of french people are against Turkey joining the EU, then the majority is against Sharia Law. Not to mention france is a christian country and would never let that happen.
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Caster13

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MrSnuggles

i have a problem with porn being called "Free speech" and a koran in a toilet being called a hate crime.



The two of those separately or the two of those combined to create a sort of contradiction?

Oh. And just for the record. Everybody sees that me--the "champion of free speech"--is right here right? Because I have a feeling that Snuggles is going to ask the same silly rhetorical question next time a similar news story comes up.
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MrSnuggles

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--vandalismquran0727jul27,0,6882662.story

ok so let me get this straight, burning a flag is speech, porno is speech, burning a bible is probably speech, but DONT YOU DARE throw that koran in the toilet, THATS A HATE CRIME!!!

i mean, come on, wheres the ACLU(ahem, advance) when you need em? wheres the lefties that proclaim to be the champions of free speech?


Where's the article saying that Muslim students at that particular school were burning flags and bibles?
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Robjomak

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I thought he was implying the whole Sharia law taking over France thing that has the rest of the muslim-hating/fearful world freaked out.


No, I was being sarcastic about Buu saying Christian-inspired law was just as bad as Sharia law by saying murder laws (thou shalt not kill) should be repealed, and then asking where Buu lived. Such a stupid comment on his part. But hey, in France, it's equal opportunity religion hating, right? Even when it makes no sense!

Oh. And just for the record. Everybody sees that me--the "champion of free speech"--is right here right? Because I have a feeling that Snuggles is going to ask the same silly rhetorical question next time a similar news story comes up.


It's not silly. It's right on the money for this sick contradiction and the fact that you cant get off your hypocritical laurels to admit such a boldly ridiculous injustice, lest you agree with Snuggles on anything, is retarded. You are a champion of wasted arguments and the leftist agenda, nothing more.

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Porn isn't free speech, it's freedom of the press. Snuggles' point is a little ambiguous here, I think that's what Caster's trying to say.
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BEan

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Dolphin

Porn isn't free speech, it's freedom of the press. Snuggles' point is a little ambiguous here, I think that's what Caster's trying to say.


Its also art. Try watching Debbie Does Dallas and not say thats art.
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NerdSunday, July 29th 2007.

Caster13

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Robjomak

It's not silly. It's right on the money for this sick contradiction and the fact that you cant get off your hypocritical laurels to admit such a boldly ridiculous injustice, lest you agree with Snuggles on anything, is retarded. You are a champion of wasted arguments and the leftist agenda, nothing more.



I think you may have misunderstood me. Look at my original post:

Caster13

I think throwing the Koran into a toilet is speech equivalent to burning the flag.



I am agreeing with Snuggles, or at least with the concepts he attributes to a "lefty proclaiming to be the champion of free speech". I don't see how I'm being hypocritical.

It looks like you made the same mistake Snuggles did: presuming what others think.
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NerdMonday, July 30th 2007.

bleeper2.0

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Its also art. Try watching Debbie Does Dallas and not say thats art.



Asian chicks turning tricks 3 is the pinacle of modern film making. Anyway i doubt Sharia law will ever be implemented in Europe, it's just too secular.

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sharia law is pretty secular, imho
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Caster13

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How's that?
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MrSnuggles

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while its good that lefties here agree, im still left wondering why the ACLU isnt rushing in to help this poor guy. advance, do you have an answer for that?? wheres the ACLU?
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Because Advance pretty much heads up the ACLU. He should know.
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Caster13

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Advance

Maybe they're like you and would rather fry than take legal assistance from the ACLU.



The guy did, after all, throw a bunch of Korans into toilets.
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NerdMonday, July 30th 2007.

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MrSnuggles

while its good that lefties here agree, im still left wondering why the ACLU isnt rushing in to help this poor guy. advance, do you have an answer for that?? wheres the ACLU?



Do they represent flag burners? I have no idea.
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Robjomak

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I thought that kind of thing was what they were known for.
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Daisy

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Flag burners, pedophiles, the list goes on and on...
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I think the ACLU's main aim is to represent minorities whether they are racial minorities or a minority in terms of an opinion. Liberals tend to like the underdog challeging the giant, evil majority so we natrually support that kind of thing. Big Grin

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Needless to say, Hawking, who is recognized as one of the great theoretical physicists of the 20th and 21st century, was born in the UK and has lived his entire life there.
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Daisy

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The ACLU's main aim is to be degenerate assholes.

Mission accomplished.
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Well, that's not very nice. They may be assholes, but just because you disagree with them doesn't make them assholes! Shame on you Daisy...I expected better!
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Investors Business Daily on Obama "death panel":

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Needless to say, Hawking, who is recognized as one of the great theoretical physicists of the 20th and 21st century, was born in the UK and has lived his entire life there.
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Daisy

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They defend kiddie rapists and hide behind freedom of speech and right to assemble and all that bullshit that criminals shouldn't be allowed to have anyway. So you can take your shame and shove it.
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Well, that's not very nice. They may be assholes, but just because you disagree with them doesn't make them assholes! Shame on you Daisy...I expected better!




Actually, even though the ACLU commonly supports muslim POVS is such things, I think they're pretty annoying. No


And stop posting in teal.

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Daisy

They defend kiddie rapists and hide behind freedom of speech and right to assemble and all that bullshit that criminals shouldn't be allowed to have anyway. So you can take your shame and shove it.

Like I said, I love underdogs. Just as long as they don't rape my kids...I'm cool. I'm tried of hearing people bitch about them anyway. Devote more newstime to Bush bashing please!

I was just watching a carchase today in Dallas...stupid crimal didn't watch the spikestrip, I was dissapointed...Frown

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Investors Business Daily on Obama "death panel":

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Needless to say, Hawking, who is recognized as one of the great theoretical physicists of the 20th and 21st century, was born in the UK and has lived his entire life there.
NerdMonday, July 30th 2007.

burning_phoneix

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Devote more newstime to Bush bashing please!



I hate bush with a passion and all but......do news stations show anything else these days?

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Daisy

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As long as they don't rape your kids... but other's children are a-ok for rapists to prey on in your book? Nice. People like you make me sick.
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Well, I mean I'm tired of people trying to put these people behind bars for life/cut off their balls/kill these people. Once again, I think all of the hooplah over pedophiles is a pretty big overreaction.

If I advertised a free crackhouse online and called it "To catch a Crackhead" I'd probably get as many people to show up as "To catch a Predator". Crackheads are just as detrimental to any neighborhood as a pedophile.

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"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Needless to say, Hawking, who is recognized as one of the great theoretical physicists of the 20th and 21st century, was born in the UK and has lived his entire life there.
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Daisy

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Have your childhood ripped away from you by some asshole that can't control themselves around a kid and then defend them.
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The same could be said for any mother who's lost a child to drugs like crack. Just as destructive if not more than being raped. Sure, kids might not choose to be raped like they choose to pick up crack, but it's still the same in that most cases the parent could've prevented it by watching their kids more closely.

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Investors Business Daily on Obama "death panel":

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Needless to say, Hawking, who is recognized as one of the great theoretical physicists of the 20th and 21st century, was born in the UK and has lived his entire life there.
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Wikipedia to the rescue!

The ACLU is no stranger to taking controversial stances. It has defended organizations as diverse as the Ku Klux Klan and the pro-gun ownership group Second Amendment Foundation. Often, its clients are notoriously unpopular such as neo-Nazi organizations and the North American Man/Boy Love Association, (NAMBLA), a group which supports lifting all age restrictions on pederasty. In the case of NAMBLA, the ACLU's Massachusetts affiliate defended the organization, on first amendment grounds, against murder charges that were based solely on the fact that a man who raped and murdered a child had visited the NAMBLA website.[41] Although the ACLU has clarified that it does not endorse NAMBLA's message, its defense of the group has been widely criticized. In particular, the ACLU's defense of NAMBLA came under intense criticism when the former president of the Virginia chapter of the ACLU was arrested on pedophilia charges.[42].[43]

Among the more notable controversial cases which involved the American Civil Liberties Union are the following:

The ACLU opposes the bill in its entirety, considering it "misguided political posturing that [would] do nothing to reduce sex crimes,"[44]. The ACLU also currently opposes the retroactive application of Megan's Law (which requires law enforcement authorities to identify convicted sex offenders to the public at large through various media outlets) to persons convicted before the law was passed.[45][46]. Recent court decisions, however, have determined that Megan's law is not a violation ex post facto, since it does not constitute a "punishment".

The ACLU also defended Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North,[47] whose conviction was tainted by coerced testimony—a violation of his fifth amendment rights.[48]
The ACLU fought for the Westboro Baptist Church and Shirley Phelps-Roper after legislation prevented the group from picketing outside of veteran's funerals.[49] The Westboro Baptist Church is infamous for their picket signs that contain messages such as, "God Hates Fags", "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "Thank God for 9/11". The ACLU issued a statement calling the legislation a "law that infringes on Shirley Phelps-Roper's rights to religious liberty and free speech".[50]

The ACLU has filed 6 lawsuits against the Tangipahoa Parish, Louisiana school board over what the group sees as teacher-led prayer in school activities.[51]

The ACLU defended Frank Snepp, formerly of the Central Intelligence Agency, from an attempt by the government agency to enforce a gag order against him.[52]

The ACLU has aided the Florida Justice Institute and Writeaprisoner.com in supporting prisoner's rights, especially what the ACLU sees as the First Amendment right to post online profiles seeking pen pals during their incarceration and jobs upon their release.

In 2006, the ACLU of Washington State and the Second Amendment Foundation jointly filed a lawsuit[53] against the North Central Regional Library District (NCRL) in Washington State for its policy of refusing to disable restrictions upon an adult patron's request. Library patrons attempting to access pro-gun web sites were blocked, and the library refused to remove the blocks. Officially, the ACLU declares itself "neutral" on the subject of gun control legislation although it holds that the second amendment applies only to state militias and not individuals.[54]



Seems like they're pretty even-handed as far as liberal/conservative goes to me. Also sounds like Daisy mischaracterized their position on NAMBLA. From these cases here, it seems like the Megan's Law stance is a much bigger problem.
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Daisy

They defend kiddie rapists and hide behind freedom of speech and right to assemble and all that bullshit that criminals shouldn't be allowed to have anyway.


...oh dear.

I don't want to write an essay here, but I just have to ask; was that spoken in anger, or do you truly believe that 'criminals' should not have rights? That's a pretty scary proposition, if that is indeed what you were suggesting.

edit -- perhaps I misinterpreted your suggestion [if it is along the lines of what Robjomak was suggesting]. If so, then you can ignore my post. I was just seeking clarification. Smile

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Robjomak

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Convicted felons being stripped of the right to vote, tracking sex offenders, and such are all things I'm in favor of.

It has nothing to do with whether they're due freedom of speech and the press and such because that's not what the argument is about. At all. The problem with the ACLU is they contort the law - they contort those specific and important freedoms - to defend things they were never meant to. They cheapen freedom of speech with anti-American assholes burning flags and spitting on soldiers. They cheapen freedom of the press with porn.

If a bunch of criminals were assembling to freely speak and distribute their own printed material about... I don't know starving children in Africa... that's just dandy. It's when liberal morons try to twist the law to make crimes okay, and force people to accept things they don't want to, and they shouldn't have to - that there's a problem. And the ACLU has become an embodiment of this concept. It's not about defending true liberty, it's approaching the topic from such an insanely left wing, out of touch perspective and believing, really believing, that if flag burning was outlawed anywhere, anyone who questioned the government would be killed in the middle of the night. That if any local government could restrict porn and any innappropriate material, we'd be well on our way to state-controlled media. It's extremism, paranoia, and worst of all, very well funded and capable. It's dangerous.

Seems like they're pretty even-handed as far as liberal/conservative goes to me. Also sounds like Daisy mischaracterized their position on NAMBLA. From these cases here, it seems like the Megan's Law stance is a much bigger problem.


I'm sorry, what in the hell were they remotely conservative on? The Second Amendment applies only to militias? That's pretty much the farthest left perversion of the Constitution you can get.

 
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