Nerd Mentality

DOUGLASVILLE, Ga. -- There is a cardboard box in Genarlow Wilson's old bedroom.


The Bernstein Firm
Despite lacking size, overachieving Genarlow Wilson was being recruited by several college football programs.

It rests on the floor of his empty closet, near the deflated football and basketball. It's filled with things he needed in his old life. Mostly, it's overflowing with recruiting letters, from schools big and small. A "Good luck on the SAT" postcard from the coaches at Columbia. From another Ivy League college, Brown, a note from the football coach: "You have been recommended to me as one of the top scholar-athletes in your area."

There's a questionnaire from the Citadel. A brochure from Elon. An envelope from Sewanee. College after college, all wanting the undersized but overachieving Genarlow Wilson to consider their football programs. One open letter, dated three months before everything in this box became a reminder of a life derailed, invites him to take a campus visit. It begins:

Dear Genarlow,

Here you stand, on the threshold of four of the most influential, challenging, and rewarding years of your life.

Being Inmate No. 1187055
Genarlow Wilson is standing on a threshold all right, at the end of the last hall of Burruss Correctional Training Center, an hour and a half south of Atlanta. He's just a few feet from the mechanical door that closes with a goosebump-raising whurr and clang. Three and a half years after he received that letter, he's wearing a blue jacket with big, white block letters. They read: STATE PRISONER.

He's 20 now. Just two years into a 10-year sentence without possibility of parole, he peers through the thick glass and bars, trying to catch a glimpse of freedom. Outside, guard towers and rolls of coiled barbed wire remind him of who he is.
Video
Genarlow Wilson explains why he wouldn't take a plea bargain. Watch

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Once, he was the homecoming king at Douglas County High. Now he's Georgia inmate No. 1187055, convicted of aggravated child molestation.

When he was a senior in high school, he received oral sex from a 10th grader. He was 17. She was 15. Everyone, including the girl and the prosecution, agreed she initiated the act. But because of an archaic Georgia law, it was a misdemeanor for teenagers less than three years apart to have sexual intercourse, but a felony for the same kids to have oral sex.

Afterward, the state legislature changed the law to include an oral sex clause, but that doesn't help Wilson. In yet another baffling twist, the law was written to not apply to cases retroactively, though another legislative solution might be in the works. The case has drawn national condemnation, from the "Free Genarlow Wilson Now" editorial in The New York Times to a feature on Mark Cuban's HDNet.

"It's disgusting," Cuban wrote to ESPN in an e-mail. "I can not see any way, shape or form that the interests of the state of Georgia are served by throwing away Genarlow's youth and opportunity to become a vibrant contributor to the state. All his situation does is reinforce some unfortunate stereotypes that the state is backward and misgoverned. No one with a conscience can look at this case and conclude that justice has been served."

Wilson's mother, Juanessa Bennett, certainly doesn't understand. She has just bought a new house the next county over, hoping that a change of scenery might do her good. The past few years have been hard on her.

"You think, what in the world could I have done to God to make him punish me like this?" she says. "Am I that terrible a person?"


Tracy Smith/Special to ESPN.com
"It was like I had everything one day, and the next day I didn't have anything," Wilson says.

Her home feels empty without her son in it. He's not there to enjoy the five burgers for five bucks on Tuesday at the Sonic Drive-In, or chatting away on his telephone late at night. Now, she can only think about the past three years of their lives, and how everything is so different from before.

She points to a picture above her fireplace. There's a grinning 3-year-old boy in the frame, posing with big alphabet blocks.

"He was cute, huh?" she says, quietly.

She looks at the picture, but doesn't cry. There aren't many tears left. After it first happened, she says she cried so much she got an eye infection. Bumps broke out on her face, brought on by worry and grief.

"You need to stop stressing," the doctor told her.

She asked him how exactly she might do that.

"He didn't have an answer," Bennett says.

Now, she's numb. Now, she can only remember the boy he was and pray that when his ordeal is finally over, some of that boy will remain.

The image of a bright future dimming with each passing day is what infuriates so many people. Wilson should be held up as an example of a kid who was making it. His life should be protected by society, not destroyed. He was a good student, with a 3.2 grade point average. He was popular, the school's homecoming king, liked by students and teachers. He never got into any trouble with the law. He was a track and football star. His last two years, he was the defensive back assigned to cover Calvin Johnson, the former Sandy Creek High star who went on to Georgia Tech and is now projected as a top pick in the NFL draft. Wilson studied film, trying to figure out how to outsmart a better and taller athlete. He did well, coaches remember, limiting Johnson to four catches in two games.

Three years later, sitting in their office overlooking the field, finishing up another workday, Wilson's old coaches also remember a good but not great high school player who would have played college ball. They remember his last game, in the playoffs, way down in south Georgia. He got hit so hard on a kickoff return that he ended up spitting up blood on the sideline. The trainer shined a flashlight in his eye, figuring he had a concussion. Wilson grabbed his helmet, determined to go back in the game. He went to the hospital instead.


The Bernstein Firm
From drinking to smoking pot to acting like a cocky star athlete, Wilson now cringes at some of the mistakes he made in high school.

He admits he wasn't perfect. Far from it. He drank. He smoked pot. He'd been sexually active since he was 13. And a month or so after that final playoff game, he and some buddies were plotting a New Year's Eve bash. His mama heard them whispering in his bedroom that afternoon. She knew kids whispering usually meant trouble, so she went in and looked those boys up and down.

"Don't do anything stupid," she warned.

Something Stupid
Genarlow Wilson and his friends checked into the Days Inn right off Interstate 20. At some point in the night, according to court documents and evidence presented at trial, some girls came over to party with them. Bourbon and marijuana were consumed. One of the young men turned on a video camera.

Later in the evening, a 17-year-old girl began to have sex with the young men, first in the bathroom, then on the bed. Genarlow is captured on tape appearing to have sex with the girl from behind. Her hand is clearly visible on the floor supporting herself. Witnesses said she was a willing participant.

The next morning, the girl awoke in a stupor, wearing nothing but her socks. She called her mother and said she had been raped. Police came to the room after sunrise and took the revelers in for questioning. Genarlow had already gone home -- he didn't want to miss curfew -- but the video camera remained.

On tape, the cops saw a 15-year-old girl, a 10th-grader, performing oral sex on a partygoer and, after finishing with him, turning and performing the act on Genarlow. She was the instigator, according to her mother's testimony. Problem was, the girl was a year under the age of consent. Local prosecutors called the act aggravated child molestation, following the letter and not the spirit of the law, which was designed to prosecute pedophiles.

A week later, on the first day of the second semester of his senior year, the police went to the school and arrested the boys. Wilson was charged with four felonies and taken from the building in handcuffs. Not long before, he'd been in the newspaper for being all-conference in football. Now, he was on the front page, branded a rapist and child molester.

"It was like I had everything one day," he says, "and the next day I didn't have anything."

For the next eight months, Douglas County District Attorney David McDade, who likes to wear an American flag on his lapel and play to his law-and-order-loving base, dangled plea bargains. The other boys didn't want to risk a jury, and one by one each took an offer and went to prison, including the other football player arrested, Narada Williams, who accepted five years with the possibility of parole.

In Douglas County, according to law professors following the case, admitting sins and begging forgiveness -- not insisting on your innocence -- is the road to mercy. Williams is already out of jail, in part because McDade wrote a letter to the parole board, praising Williams for being the first to plead guilty and "take his medicine." As for Wilson, McDade called him a "martyr" in the media.


The Bernstein Firm
If he had accepted the plea bargain, Wilson would've had to register as a sex offender and wouldn't have been permitted to live in the same house as his younger sister.

Wilson refused to admit to being a child molester. If he pled to or was convicted of any charge that put him on the sex offender registry, he couldn't live at home with his younger sister. He wouldn't accept that, so he waited for his trial.

The Saturday before it began, his last weekend as a free man, Wilson tried out for a local semi-pro football team. He wanted to be that other person once more, the one who could outrun all of life's problems. For two glorious hours, he sprinted and jumped and dived. When it was over, the coaches were impressed. They traded cell phone numbers, just another opportunity that would soon pass him by.

Two days later, in February 2005, Genarlow Wilson walked into a courtroom. Two charges already had been dropped, and it was clear from the first witness that the rape charge wouldn't stick either. The aggravated child molestation, though, was on tape. Genarlow tried to defend himself against the assigned prosecutor, Eddie Barker.

"Sir," Wilson told him, "you don't even know me. I understand you're just doing your job, sure, but I mean, how would you feel if you were my age and you were put on the stand with these serious charges at this young age? I have a little sister. Why would I molest anyone, sir?"

"I'm not on trial here, Mr. Wilson," Barker said. "You're the one who did these acts, not me."

The day before the trial was expected to end, in the last night he'd ever spend at his home, Wilson went to a church down the street and asked the preacher to pray with him. He awoke early the next morning. He knotted his tie carefully and went to the courthouse. The trial finished that afternoon, and the jury came back with "not guilty" on the rape but "guilty" on the aggravated child molestation.

He looked at the forewoman. She was crying, seeming to understand they'd just undone a promising future. Indeed, when the jurors found out there was a 10-year mandatory minimum sentence, several were incensed. The prosecution told them to write a letter, then moved on to the next case.

Genarlow Wilson put his head in his hands and wept.


Tracy Smith/Special to ESPN.com
Once identified as a promising football prospect, Wilson is now just known as inmate No. 1187055.

Deputies yanked him from his seat. Not long after, Prisoner 1187055 found himself in the predawn darkness, riding in a bus, surrounded not by his teammates but by murderers, thieves and rapists. Some were headed to the penitentiary for the second or third time.

A scared kid looked out the window as the bus chewed up pavement. He didn't know what it was going to be like, only that he didn't want to go.

Doing Hard Time
Wilson moves to the rhythm of the prison now, up early with the shift change, tidying his cell, sitting down to rest before chow, wearing white pants with a blue stripe. It has been 23 months.

These walls and bars haven't taken his youth, though. Not yet. When he smiles, it's the same one from that old photo on his mom's mantel. Bennett wonders how her son has managed to keep that light in such a dark place and how much longer he can hold out.

With nothing but time, he has taken stock of his old life. He doesn't like the person he was back then, the cocky star athlete with the world as his yo-yo. When he thinks about the kid on that videotape, with a Pittsburgh Pirates hat cocked just so, he cringes.

"It's embarrassing to me," he says. "You see yourself. ... 'Man, I acted like that?' "

He has followed his appeals from behind bars. He watched as the state legislature changed the law that put him there, then declined to make it retroactive, for reasons that still boggle the mind. That was a dark day.

He watched as B.J. Bernstein, his new attorney, filed a petition for writ of certiorari, asking the Georgia Supreme Court to review the case. The petition was denied, then set aside, then denied again, then appealed, then denied again. Those were darker days.

The first time the Supreme Court voted on Genarlow's case, it was 4-3. The four judges who voted against the black teen were white. The three judges who voted for him were black.

"I don't understand the Supreme Court," Bennett says. "Do these people not have hearts? Can they not look and see this isn't right?"


Tracy Smith/Special to ESPN.com
Wilson's attorney, B.J. Bernstein, is working pro bono to try to get her client out of prison.

In its written decision, the Supreme Court called Wilson a "promising young man," a paragraph that he has read a thousand times. All the e-mails Bernstein gets in support of him, he has those, too. He reads them over and over, reminding himself that he once had a future and, one day, might have it again. It's not easy.

Other people's lives have moved on.

He has corresponded with Williams, his co-defendant and old high school teammate. Williams is enrolled in college now.

Wilson sat in prison and watched Calvin Johnson, the guy he once covered, become the best college receiver in the country and a soon-to-be millionaire.

"That has made my ambitions higher," Wilson says. "That makes me want to succeed even more because I don't want to be left behind."

The Halls of Power
In Atlanta, Bernstein makes her rounds at the state capitol. It's the first day of the legislative session and men in power ties click their wingtips over marble floors, lobbyists back-slapping each other in their little groups.

"He's sitting in jail," she says. "He's in jail every day they're sitting around chatting."


Tracy Smith/Special to ESPN.com
Instead of an Ivy League school, Wilson went straight from Douglas County High to Burruss Correctional Training Center.

When Bernstein met Wilson, who had a different attorney for the trial, she saw that light in his eyes and didn't want prison to extinguish it. Truth is, she's a rescuer. One of her cats she found on the interstate. She stopped her car in the rain on a six-lane highway to save it. In her heart, she wants to save the world, starting with Genarlow Wilson. That means working pro bono, even as every small check the firm earns goes straight into the operating account. That means figuring out this strange power-brokers' dance.

It's frustrating work. No one involved believes Wilson should be in jail for 10 years.

The prosecutors don't.

The Supreme Court doesn't.

The legislature doesn't.

The 15-year-old "victim" doesn't.

The forewoman of the jury doesn't.

Privately, even prison officials don't.

Yet no one will do anything to free him, passing responsibility around like a hot potato. The prosecutors say they were just doing their job. The Supreme Court says it couldn't free him because the state legislature decreed the new law didn't apply to old cases, even though this case was the entire reason the new law was passed. One possible explanation is that Bernstein, an admitted neophyte at backroom dealing, simply didn't know enough politics to insist on the provision. That haunts her.


Tracy Smith/Special to ESPN.com
As an honor student, football star and homecoming king, Wilson conquered challenges in high school ... but he now faces an uncertain future.

The legislature still could pass a new law that would secure Wilson's freedom, so Bernstein is pushing hard for that. One such bipartisan bill was introduced this week, pushed by state Sens. Emanuel Jones, Dan Weber and Kasim Reed. This is Wilson's best shot.

"I understand the injustice in the justice system," Jones says, "and when I heard about Genarlow and started studying what had happened, I said, 'This is a wrong that must be righted.' Everyone agrees that justice is not being served."

Afterward, Bernstein can file a writ of habeas corpus, which could get him out of jail, but those are legal Hail Marys. She's a true believer, but if the legislature denies this latest attempt, she knows she might not be able to save Genarlow Wilson. Until it's over, nothing's off the table. Not even simple positive thinking. Sitting at a midtown-Atlanta Chinese restaurant on a lunch break from all the political wrangling, she picked up her fortune cookie, smiled thinly and said, "Gimme a good one: Genarlow will be free."

She's still working every angle, from the capital to cookies, riding up an elevator to the 53rd floor of an Atlanta high-rise to see David Balser, the attorney who got Marcus Dixon out of jail. The Dixon case was similar: As an 18-year-old, he had sex with a 15-year-old girl and was sentenced to 10 years before the conviction was overturned.

Sitting in a conference room overlooking Stone Mountain, Balser listens. The light shines off his gold cufflinks, the high-thread-count shirt hanging perfectly off his shoulders. He's got a little salt in his pepper and a Virgin Islands tan. They talk media strategy. They talk last-ditch plans, including a constitutional amendment returning pardon power to the governor. When they're done, Balser walks Bernstein to the elevator.

"I think less is more, B.J.," he says. "You've got to get him out and solve the world's problems after that. Just get him out."

"I'm trying," she says.

"I have faith in you," he says.

Letter of the Law
Every story needs a villain, and in this one, the villain's hat has been placed squarely on the head of Barker, the prosecutor and a former college baseball player. Barker doesn't write the laws in the books to the left of his desk. He simply punishes those who break them.

"We didn't want him to get the 10 years," he says. "We understand there's an element out there scratching their heads, saying, 'How does a kid get 10 years under these facts?' "
Wilson's Appeal
To find out more about Genarlow Wilson's appeal, visit www.wilsonappeal.com, or click here.

To discuss the Genarlow Wilson story with other ESPN.com readers, click here.

In Barker's eyes, Wilson should have taken the same plea agreement as the others. Maintaining innocence in the face of the crushing wheels of justice is the ultimate act of vanity, he believes.

"I understand what he's saying," Barker says. "I think he's making a bad decision in the long run. Being branded a sex offender is not good; but at the same time, if it made the difference between spending 10 years as opposed to two? Is it worth sitting in prison for eight more years, and you're still gonna be a sex offender when you get out?"

Barker is quick to point out that he offered Wilson a plea after he'd been found guilty -- the first time he has ever done that. Of course, the plea was the same five years he'd offered before the trial -- not taking into account the rape acquittal. Barker thinks five years is fair for receiving oral sex from a schoolmate. None of the other defendants insisted on a jury trial. Wilson did. He rolled the dice, and he lost. The others, he says, "took their medicine."

While Bernstein works on every possible legal solution, the Douglas County District Attorney's Office has the power to get Wilson out of prison. If the prosecution wanted, this could all end tomorrow. The D.A.'s office says Bernstein hasn't asked. Bernstein says she has. Not that any legal he said/she said matters. Only the prosecutors' opinion does, and according to at least one legal expert, prosecutorial ego is more of a factor in this case than race. The folks in Douglas County are playing god with Genarlow Wilson's life.

"We can set aside his sentence," Barker says. "Legally, it's still possible for us to set aside his sentence and give him a new sentence to a lesser charge. But it's up to us. He has no control over it."

The position of Barker and the district attorney, McDade, who refused to comment, is that Wilson is guilty under the law and there is no room for mercy, though the facts seem to say they simply chose not to give it to Wilson. At the same time this trial was under way, a local high school teacher, a white female, was found guilty of having a sexual relationship with a student -- a true case of child molestation. The teacher received 90 days. Wilson received 3,650 days.

Now, if Wilson wants a shot at getting out, he must throw himself at the prosecutors' feet and ask for mercy, which he might or might not receive. Joseph Heller would love this. If Wilson would only admit to being a child molester, he could stop receiving the punishment of one. Maybe.

"Well," Barker says, "the one person who can change things at this point is Genarlow. The ball's in his court."

Hanging On To Hope
Back at Burruss, Genarlow Wilson is standing against the wall, looking out through the glass of the control room, peering between the bars, watching his attorney and another visitor leave. He has had plenty of people who want to talk to him, including a group of concerned legislators who plan on visiting this week, which finally feels like a real step toward freedom. Problem is, they always go home after an hour or two. He stays behind.

The worst is when his mom comes. She visited on Martin Luther King Jr. Day, bringing him news of the outside world and a smile. She told him about the new house she bought, just over the Cobb County line, finally out of Douglas. She doesn't want him moving back there when he's released. Saying goodbye, though, kills him. He watches her go and is taken back to his cell, where he can just imagine her in her car, imagining him in this prison.


Tracy Smith/Special to ESPN.com
Wilson is facing another eight years behind bars if his sentence is upheld.

"When she leaves, a part of me leaves," he says. "I just have to get myself back together because we've got a long way to go. I try not to think about doing the whole 10. I'm putting claims on going home this year."

Hope is all he has left. He believes in a system that has failed him. He believes in those powerful men in Atlanta. He believes in the kindness of others, and in the skills of Bernstein. He lets her work, spending most of his days in the prison library, reading all the books he can. Sometimes, he pretends he's a character, living in a fantasy world, not in a cellblock.

When the weather's nice, he can run laps around the yard, as if he's still on a football field, chasing down future first-round picks. The burn in his lungs feels like a time long past. It feels like freedom.

He looks through the windows just a moment more, sadness in his eyes, then turns around. Wilson stares down the hall of his prison, waiting on a day when he can go home.

"I've got a real good feeling about what's going on," he says. "I feel like 2007 is it. This is my year."

His mom has the house ready for him because any day now, her baby's coming back. She just knows it. Over past the dryer, that's his new bedroom. She picked it because it's close to the garage, so he could come and go as he pleases. She thought he deserved that.

Everything's set, in case it's tomorrow. She left the rapper posters rolled up, figuring a man would be coming home. She set out his football trophies and his high school diploma, to remind him what he used to be. She hooked up a television and a stereo. An alarm clock is on the nightstand, so he can get himself up for school. Even the bed is made.

The only thing missing is her son.

SOURCE

It's frustrating work. No one involved believes Wilson should be in jail for 10 years.

The prosecutors don't.

The Supreme Court doesn't.

The legislature doesn't.

The 15-year-old "victim" doesn't.

The forewoman of the jury doesn't.

Privately, even prison officials don't.

So who the **** put his ass in jail? Santa Claus??

Ninjazn

That is one messed up law. It's a misdemeanor to have sex, but a felony for oral sex? WTF? I understand they changed it now, but to not make it retroactive is stupid. I feel bad for him.

Well you ****ing shouldn't. He stood up for what he believed and didn't take a plea bargin, that was his choice to make a point and now the law is changed.

Daisy

The law.

No, the prosecutor. He's playing this fast and loose, trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth, and he knows it's winning him points in the community, despite this article.

The prosecutor can say whatever he wants, but it is entirely up to him what the kid was charged with and what penalty he'd face.

It doesn't seem like this kid was completely innocent, but I do agree that the law is ridiculous and the idea that intercourse is less of a crime than oral sex is just plain archaic and stupid.

But the fact is, if all those people don't believe the sentence fits the crime, it was up to the prosecutor to do something about it, and all he really cared about was getting the win and furthering his career. Georgia politics.
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"You think, what in the world could I have done to God to make him punish me like this?" she says. "Am I that terrible a person?"

Yet another terrific example of the Christian tendency towards self-centered universalism. Of course, because this causes HER pain, it must be all ABOUT her. And as the Christian god is a god of vengeance, he causes pain to teach a lesson. Even if it means the manipulation, emotional and social destruction of an innocent child. He will now, for the rest of his life be legally labeled as a "Sexual predator", grouping him with child molesters, necrophiliacs and extreme sadomasochists. This radical blindness created by theology is what GOT her son in this in the FIRST place. Obviously, she gained absolutely no lesson out of this. She still embraces the very source of the destructive ethics that imprisoned her son.

Advance

Did you get molested by your priest as a child or something? Where did that come from?

no, I just recognize the cultural affluences christian theology creates. This is one of them. I did not have a priest, I did not go to anywhere that they could indoctrinate me with fear.

but seriously, considering the substance that I brought to the argument, you think you could try a little harder to discredit my argument other then making silly mild indirect personal attacks. I think my argument, though abrasive and blunt, holds ground.

Anbesol

no, I just recognize the cultural affluences christian theology creates. This is one of them. I did not have a priest, I did not go to anywhere that they could indoctrinate me with fear.

but seriously, considering the substance that I brought to the argument, you think you could try a little harder to discredit my argument other then making silly mild indirect personal attacks. I think my argument, though abrasive and blunt, holds ground.

You know your whole PM about "Hey, why do you hate me?" THIS is why.


The oxygen to your nuts is cut off thanks to your tight, tight panty wad.

My hell you're such a douche.

leafs rule

My hell?

Utahn

Anbesol

no, I just recognize the cultural affluences christian theology creates. This is one of them. I did not have a priest, I did not go to anywhere that they could indoctrinate me with fear.

but seriously, considering the substance that I brought to the argument, you think you could try a little harder to discredit my argument other then making silly mild indirect personal attacks. I think my argument, though abrasive and blunt, holds ground.

Well, I don't really understand the part of your argument where you lashed out at the mother.

I guess it's likely that the law concerning sodomy has religious origins, but I'd imagine they're only Christian because most people were Christian. Then again, Georgia wasn't really founded as a Christian haven like, say, the Northeast, so I'm having a hard time seeing where the problem is.

The reality is we pass a lot of laws that, when you interpret them over-inclusively--as obviously appears the case here--people get convicted of crimes when they shouldn't. It's not like everyone is saying "HE SHOULD GO TO JAIL FOR BEING THE CHILD OF SATAN THAT HE IS." In fact, everyone's saying this is wrong. It's just the prosecutor that's being an asshole about it, and he's doing it for political reasons, not religious reasons.

As for the mother, I have a hard time attributing her comments to being self-centered and a much easier time contributing her comments to frustration and despair.

Besides, ultimately it seems as though you're blaming Christianity for what happened to the kid. In reality, it seems quite clear from the article that the kid and his friends knowingly planned a party that they knew their parents wouldn't approve of, and things got way out of hand. Should he go to jail for it? Probably not, but it's not like he's an innocent victim here. He is morally culpable--it's just the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
___________________

leafs rule

My hell?

Anyways, the kid got what he deserved. If he does it again he'll get the needle, right?

I hope you're joking
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KyuubiWarrior

After clicking a thread about oral sex the first line I read is "Despite lacking size, overachieving Genarlow Wilson..."

Fun.

Hahaha. To say nothing of "There is a cardboard box in Genarlow Wilson's old bedroom."

This thread was an adventure for the first few lines, to be sure.
___________________

leafs rule

My hell?

Anyways, the kid got what he deserved. If he does it again he'll get the needle, right?

What the **** do you think Georgia is? A civilized state? He'll get a malfunctioning electric chair or a blunt guillotine. Justice FTW.
___________________
.

Well, I don't really understand the part of your argument where you lashed out at the mother.

holy hell, you dont?! How? The bitch actually thought SHE was being punished through god manipulating her son! do you not see the negative effects of this.

"HE SHOULD GO TO JAIL FOR BEING THE CHILD OF SATAN THAT HE IS."

that is exactly what is being said, it is very christian like, insomuch that the crime was worse because it was oral sex. that is a very christian interpretation.

coconut - sorry man, its the truth. I guess youre a christian then... just having a hard time handling the truth.. i guess thats why you hate me... Or, you know what, if im such a "douche", why dont you try to argue with me point to point. go ahead, little man, try it!

Anbesol

coconut - sorry man, its the truth. I guess youre a christian then... just having a hard time handling the truth.. i guess thats why you hate me... Or, you know what, if im such a "douche", why dont you try to argue with me point to point. go ahead, little man, try it!

I could give two flying ****s about you bashing Christianity. It's when you try to impose your views as the only one that's right while trying to intentionally but inadvertenly bash Christianity or anything that you don't find "right" that bothers me. You're beating around the bush and being a prick about it the whole time.


Anyways, as to why I "hate you" it's because you're arrogant. You call yourself "abrasive" but really it's just a way to justify your big headed, pretentious nature. Alongside this cockiness is this clout you think you have when it comes to arguing your side. "How dare someone call me a douche! That's childish and asinine! They obviously are too dim to formulate an argument with me so I'll publicly call them out! Yeah! That's my good old abrasive self!" You think piously exibiting self righteousness in your arguing will make you appear more intelligent, more correct, and most importantly, better than the person -- any other person with a different view than yours.

Touting yourself as the be all end all to everyone's answers, whether they had questions or not, is just ridiculous and makes you come off looking like, yes, a DOUCHE.

Anbesol

holy hell, you dont?! How? The bitch actually thought SHE was being punished through god manipulating her son! do you not see the negative effects of this.

Advance

As for the mother, I have a hard time attributing her comments to being self-centered and a much easier time contributing her comments to frustration and despair.

Anbesol

that is exactly what is being said, it is very christian like, insomuch that the crime was worse because it was oral sex. that is a very christian interpretation.

Where is this being said?

It's frustrating work. No one involved believes Wilson should be in jail for 10 years.

The prosecutors don't.

The Supreme Court doesn't.

The legislature doesn't.

The 15-year-old "victim" doesn't.

The forewoman of the jury doesn't.

Privately, even prison officials don't.

___________________

Anbesol

The old lady turned this into selfishness by believing this was "gods punishment to HER", because in her eyes, the world revolves around her. God is punishing HER. Whos going to prison? Whos suffering more here? Whos the REAL victim here? oh, the frustrated mom. no, youd be better of defending her with the stance that shes a complete idiot then that shes just "frustrated".

Yea, I agree. I don't think parents should love their kids either.
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steamid: chowdy

Anbesol

The old lady turned this into selfishness by believing this was "gods punishment to HER", because in her eyes, the world revolves around her. God is punishing HER. Whos going to prison? Whos suffering more here? Whos the REAL victim here? oh, the frustrated mom. no, youd be better of defending her with the stance that shes a complete idiot then that shes just "frustrated".

If her name is pronounced Wah-neice-uh, I'm sure she's an idiot. (Racism, yay!)

Anyway, maybe if you took the quote in isolation it would work that way, but I just don't see it having read the full article. If anything, she seems to blame herself for her son's situation.
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ch0wdy

Yea, I agree. I don't think parents should love their kids either.

sarcasm, clever. talk to me when you have a kid little man.

Anbesol

sarcasm, clever. talk to me when you have a kid little man.

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sarcasm, clever. talk to me when you have a kid little man.

When I have a child, i sure as hell would be upset if he/she is taken from my life. Upset for both myself and the child. Just like the mother in the article. I guess that must be because I'm Christian, right?

I haven't had a kid, so what? You wouldn't miss your kid if he/she was taken from your life? This is just another example of you unfairly (and irrationally) attacking Christianity like you usually do on these boards.

Also, the ageist spiel is getting old. Do your words really lack substance to the point that you have to resort to such an argument? Attack the argument, not the person making it.

And no one is objecting to the fact that you attack Christianity; it's how you do it. There are plenty of people here that don't favor religion, but they at least treat the topic with respect. Your arguments are commonly filled with generalizations of Christians and their beliefs. Your arguments also proclaim that your point of view is the one true belief after all, what you say is "the truth."

Wait, let's take a step back. Arguments composed primarily of generalizations, irrational and unnecessary attacks on specific groups, disrespect for the beliefs of others, and all with an air of self-righteousness. Sound familiar?
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steamid: chowdy

Anbesol

Why does everybody here get all butt hurt when I talk about christianity. Last time I checked we didnt have to agree on everything

because youre a disrespectful, bigoted, ignorant jackass.
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JFK: Ich bin ein Berliner
BHO: Ich bin ein beginner

When I have a child, i sure as hell would be upset if he/she is taken from my life. Upset for both myself and the child. Just like the mother in the article. I guess that must be because I'm Christian, right?

Like I SAID, easy to say "If I did", its another thing to actually be and feel it. Trust me, ask ANY PARENT ON THIS BOARD.

I do not look at my son as an extension to my own life - I look at him as a wonderful human that needs compassion and guidance. If He was taken from me like he was taken from this lady - I would be frantically concerned about his welfare, and his well being. I wouldnt be saying "hey, what did I do to deserve this? Life is all about me!". My mind set wouldnt be "well this SUCKS FOR ME!", I would be devastated for my son, I would fight for my son, I would defend my son.

This woman isnt a terrible person, shes just an idiot, a complete incomprehensible idiots beyond mental salvation. and idiots seem to be the most prolific people on the planet.

Anbesol

How old are you? How old is your son? Wow, I was too young to have a kid - way too young, and im fuking 3 years older then you.

Umm... yea i never said I have a child. I said I will, one day.

For the record, I'm 19. I won't have a child until I graduate.

If He was taken from me like he was taken from this lady - I would be frantically concerned about his welfare, and his well being. I wouldnt be saying "hey, what did I do to deserve this? Life is all about me!". My mind set wouldnt be "well this SUCKS FOR ME!", I would be devastated for my son, I would fight for my son, I would defend my son.

She totally said "life is all about me." I missed that quote, my mistake.

I'm going to go ahead and say that she has a right to be upset for her own sake, as well as her son's. You're seeing what you want to see, with all of your accusations of selfishness. All we know about her is that her son is going to prison, and she's upset about it. Why are you passing such outrageous judgments? Her son is taken from her, and her own life is hurt. Therefore, she is distraught over her life. That's all we see in the article. Why must you jump to the conclusion that she's self-centered?

This woman isnt a terrible person, shes just an idiot, a complete incomprehensible idiots beyond mental salvation. and idiots seem to be the most prolific people on the planet.

It's too bad that even a woman that raised what seems like a good, talented boy is seen as an idiot in your eyes. Do you hate the religious that much?
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steamid: chowdy

Anbesol

No, she said "something terrible happened to my son, and thats gods way of punishing me" that was where the implication was. Next time read between the lines.

Wow, so you're going to tell me how I'm supposed to interpret things? The way you interpreted this article clearly reflects your anti-religious bias.

Again, what you saw "between the lines" is what you saw. Judging by your past behavior regarding the religious, it's not at all outlandish to say that you're being unfair.

So now I suppose you'd say that what I saw "in between the lines" was based on my own Christian bias. This would be false. I took what the article said as what it is; it is our only evidence. I drew no conclusions beyond what was given, because it would be poor argumentative practice due to human nature (bias). In short, I avoided reading "in between the lines" because it doesn't make sense to pass judgment on that which I don't know enough about.

Getting scholarships for an athletic sports shows very little about his upbringing.

I never said that he was good because of his athletic talent. If you read the article, it states that he was a good student. There is also a line where it says that he was trying to be home before curfew, indicating respect for his parent(s). The article said he had a clean police record prior to this incident. I'd say that's grounds to call someone "good," but that's quite a subjective term.

I do not hate religion, I hate religion that is intolerant and segragating. I accept htat there are good people out there that are christians, I do not propose that everyone that is a christian is a complete idiotic fool and an all around bad person.

And yet all of your posts point to the opposite. I'm sorry, but it should be clear to you by now that you rub many the wrong way. Believe me, you aren't the first anti-religious person here. You are, on the other hand, very disrespectful. Many have made that clear to you. Understand that it's not what you believe, but it's how you treat others.

I specifically remember you stating in another thread that what i learned in Sunday school was mental rape. Did you go to my church? How do you know what I learned? You don't; it's another example of you generalizing Christianity.

I mean that this religion has a profoundly poor impact on our culture, and it has for the past 2 thousand years.

I admit that as well. At the same time, are you unable to admit that religion has had a profoundly positive effect on humanity? Do you not know your Western history? In my opinion, it's amazing how much religions (all of the Western religions) shaped Western society.
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steamid: chowdy

Anbesol

Not religion, christianity. I do not have the same distaste for other religions, some similar distastes to the islam religion, but none other. Im very cynical, and blunt. I think that unitarianism is a great approach at the teachings of Christ, as they search the texts metaphorically, and open mindedly. They do not demand absolute, and they never condone violence, NEVER. This is a group of Christians that I have a lot of respect for. I speak generally, but I never mean it to be interpreted completely. When I say Christianity has a profoundly negative effect on our culture, that is not the same as saying it has no positive effect. For all I know you may very well have gone to a more peaceful and enlightened church, maybe you got some very valuable skills and information there. However, there are things that are incredibly common amongst christian churches and followers that are so wildly abundant that they can be spoken about generally. Such as the intense focus on the book of revalations, and their general tendency towards instilling fear. I probably am not conveying myself very well here, because I always end up very misunderstood. Either you guys are failing to catch some implied points or im not wording things well, probably the latter....

I completely agree. I'm sure a good amount of Christians agree. Fire and brimstone Christianity, etc does not agree with me in the least bit.

Let me be clear: it would be nice to have a discussion with an open-minded individual free of the hateful, self-righteous, arrogant words that normally accompany your posts. I'm not meaning to be offensive, but blunt.
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steamid: chowdy

ch0wdy

Let me be clear: it would be nice to have a discussion with an open-minded individual free of the hateful, self-righteous, arrogant words that normally accompany your posts. I'm not meaning to be offensive, but blunt.

I'm sorry that too much truth is hard for you to handle. If youre that sensitive to reality then maybe we shouldnt have a discussion anyway.

Did you get molested by your priest as a child or something? Where did that come from?

You must spread some cookies around before giving it to Advance again. Advance is still full from the last one you gave him!

because youre a disrespectful, bigoted, ignorant jackass

As hypocritical as the above statement may be he has a point. How would you like it if people started criticising Buddhism at every chance?

Anbesol

I'm sorry that too much truth is hard for you to handle. If youre that sensitive to reality then maybe we shouldnt have a discussion anyway.

Wow. It's really disheartening that you gained nothing from any of that. Have a good day.
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steamid: chowdy

Anbesol

look at how you talk about gays, blacks - fukin a hell, look at how you talk about islamic middle eastern people. Thats awfully hypocritical for you to call me the bigot. Im just the guy in the blue shirt in a room full of white shirts, I stand out because being disrespectful and condemning to gays and islamic middle easterners is culturally acceptable, and being opposed to the Christian religion is not culturally acceptable.

youre a hypocrite, and you are the real bigot.

whatd i ever say about black people? or gays? is it disrespectful and bigoted, even hypocritical, to point out that a muslim killed 14 people in india yesterday?

you on the other hand have no credible reason to patronize and insult people of faith, other than the fact that you disagree with their beliefs. or do you just have a personal grudge against christianity? never seen you say a word about how evil and destructive islam is. oh, or would that be racist, bigoted, and hypocritical?
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JFK: Ich bin ein Berliner
BHO: Ich bin ein beginner