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NerdTuesday, January 9th 2007.

Batist

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U.S. launches new attacks in Somalia
U.S. launches new attacks in Somalia

By MOHAMED OLAD HASSAN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 9 minutes ago

MOGADISHU, Somalia - U.S. helicopter gunships launched new attacks Tuesday against suspected al-Qaida members, a Somali official said, a day after American forces launched airstrikes in the first offensive in the African country since 18 U.S. troops were killed there in 1993.
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The latest attacks killed at least 27 civilians in the town of Afmadow in southern Somalia, lawmaker Abdiqadir Daqane told The Associated Press.

At least one AC-130 gunship carried out an airstrike Monday evening against targets in the town about 220 miles southwest of the capital of Mogadishu, Somali officials said. It was not immediately clear how many people died in those attacks, but Somali officials said there were reports that many were killed.

The U.S. attacks were targeting Islamic extremists, said a Somali Defense Ministry official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak. Earlier, Somalia's president had said the U.S. was hunting suspects in the 1998 bombings of the two U.S. embassies in East Africa, and had his support.

The aircraft carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower arrived off Somalia's coast and launched intelligence-gathering missions over Somalia, the military said. Three other U.S. warships are conducting anti-terror operations off the Somali coast.

U.S. warships have been seeking to capture al-Qaida members thought to be fleeing Somalia after Ethiopia invaded Dec. 24 in support of the government and drove the Islamic militia out of the capital and toward the Kenyan border.

The Islamic extremists are believed to be sheltering suspects in the embassy bombings, and the raids are designed to keep the militants from posing a new threat to the government.

The White House would not confirm the attacks, nor would the
Pentagon.

A U.S. government official said at least one AC-130 gunship was used Monday evening. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the operation's sensitivity.

It was the first U.S. offensive in the Horn of Africa country since the Americans led a U.N. force in the 1990s that intervened in Somalia in an effort to fight famine. The mission led to clashes between U.N. forces and Somali warlords, including the "Black Hawk Down" battle that left 18 U.S. servicemen dead.

Witnesses said at least four civilians were killed Monday 30 miles east of Afmadow, including a small boy. The claims could not be independently verified.

"My 4-year-old boy was killed in the strike," Mohamed Mahmud Burale told the AP by telephone. "We also heard 14 massive explosions."

Government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari said it was not known how many people were killed, "but we understand there were a lot of casualties. Most were Islamic fighters."

Witnesses said that in Tuesday's attack, the helicopters opened fire on the road that leads to the Kenyan border. They said they could not clearly make out the markings on the aircraft.

Daqane said two newlyweds were among the dead Tuesday.

The U.S. Embassy in Nairobi reissued a terror warning Tuesday to Americans living in or visiting the Horn of Africa.

Monday evening's airstrike came after the suspects were seen hiding on a remote island on the southern tip of Somalia, close to the Kenyan border, Somali officials said. The island and a site near the village of Hayi, 155 miles to the north, were hit.

The main target was Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, who allegedly planned the 1998 attacks on the U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, that killed 225 people.

He is also suspected of planning the car bombing of a beach resort in Kenya and the near simultaneous attempt to shoot down an Israeli airliner in 2002. Ten Kenyans and three Israelis were killed in the blast at the hotel, 12 miles north of Mombasa. The missiles missed the airliner.

Fazul, 32, joined al-Qaida in
Afghanistan and trained there with
Osama bin Laden, according to the transcript of an
FBI interrogation of a known associate. He came to Kenya in the mid-1990s, married a local woman, became a citizen and started teaching at a religious school near Lamu, just 60 miles south of Ras Kamboni, Somalia, where one of the airstrikes took place Monday.

Largely isolated, the coast north of Lamu is predominantly Muslim and many residents are of Arab descent. Boats from Lamu often visit Somalia and the Persian Gulf, making the Kenya-Somalia border area ideal for him to escape.

President Abdullahi Yusuf told journalists in the capital, Mogadishu, that the U.S. "has a right to bombard terrorist suspects who attacked its embassies." Deputy Prime Minister Hussein Aideed told The Associated Press the U.S. had "our full support for the attacks."

But others in the capital said the attacks would only increase anti-American sentiment in the largely Muslim country.

"U.S. involvement in the fighting in our country is completely wrong," said Sahro Ahmed, a 37-year-old mother of five.

Already, many people in predominantly Muslim Somalia had resented the presence of troops from neighboring Ethiopia, which has a large Christian population and has fought two brutal wars with Somalia, most recently in 1977.

The U.S. Central Command reassigned the Eisenhower to Somalia last week from its mission supporting
NATO-led forces in Afghanistan, said
U.S. Navy spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Charlie Brown in Bahrain, where the Navy's Fifth Fleet is based.

"Eisenhower aircraft have flown intelligence-gathering missions over Somalia," Brown told The Associated Press.

The spokesman said the Eisenhower was the only U.S. aircraft carrier in the region. The vessel is carrying approximately 60 aircraft, including four fighter jet squadrons, he said.

Ethiopia forces had invaded Somalia to prevent an Islamic movement from ousting the weak, internationally recognized government from its lone stronghold in the west of the country. The U.S. and Ethiopia both accuse the Islamic group of harboring extremists, among them al-Qaida suspects.

Ethiopian troops, tanks and warplanes took just 10 days to drive the Islamic group from the capital, Mogadishu, and other key towns.

Ethiopian and Somali troops had in recent days cornered the main Islamic force in Ras Kamboni, a town on Badmadow island, with U.S. warships patrolling offshore and the Kenyan military guarding the border to watch for fleeing militants.

The AC-130 is armed with 40 mm guns that fire 120 rounds per minute and a 105 mm cannon, normally a field artillery weapon. The gunships were designed primarily for battlefield use to place saturated fire on massed troops.

U.S. officials said after the Sept. 11 attacks that extremists with ties to al-Qaida operated a training camp at Ras Kamboni and al-Qaida members are believed to have visited it.

Leaders of the Islamic movement have vowed from their hideouts to launch an
Iraq-style guerrilla war in Somalia, and al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden's deputy has called on militants to carry out suicide attacks on the Ethiopian troops.

Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi said in an interview published Tuesday in the French newspaper Le Monde that suspected terrorists from Canada, Britain, Pakistan and elsewhere have been among those taken prisoner or killed in the military operations in Somalia.

Somalia has not had an effective central government since clan-based warlords toppled dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991 and then turned on each other, sinking the Horn of Africa nation of 7 million people into chaos.

A U.N. peacekeeping force, including U.S. troops, arrived in 1992, but the experiment in nation-building ended the next year when fighters loyal to clan leader Mohamed Farah Aideed shot down a U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopter and battled American troops, killing 18 servicemen.

At least 13 attempts at government have failed since then. The current government was established in 2004 with U.N. backing.
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NerdTuesday, January 9th 2007.

AxeUnleashed

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Why are the Muslim extremists always bombed, there are other ways of taking out criminals, much like they do in the US, WITHOUT killing civilians every time. Have they ever actually done a bombing, not killed civilians and come out with the body of an actual terrorist?

I thought so.
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MrSnuggles

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maybe if the "criminals" didnt situate themselves around "innocent" civilians.... nah, nevermind.
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AxeUnleashed

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MrSnuggles

maybe if the "criminals" didnt situate themselves around "innocent" civilians.... nah, nevermind.



That's my point, I'm not supporting them, I'm saying America doesn't need to use bombs to take them down, bullets work just fine. If we had the guts to actually use soldiers we could save lives.

And these "innocent" civilians are families, people in their own homes do not deserve to be bombed.
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NerdTuesday, January 9th 2007.

MrSnuggles

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you mean just like the israeli women and children killed by suicide bombers? oh, thats right, they arent innocent, they are evil joos that deserve to die.
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NerdTuesday, January 9th 2007.

AxeUnleashed

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MrSnuggles

you mean just like the israeli women and children killed by suicide bombers? oh, thats right, they arent innocent, they are evil joos that deserve to die.




It's not like America and Israel haven't had civilian casualties in their bombings, I posted an article on that last week, ISN'T THAT WHAT THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT? Just because it's not a suicide bombing, that doesn't mean innocent civilians aren't dying. It's part of war, and always will be.

I have nothing against Jews, many of my friends are Jews, the Koron says nothing against Jews, throughout history Arabs and Muslim Empires have given Jews asylum and protection when no one else would; so please, stop using that same comment over and over again.

Plus, every citizen in Israel is a trained soldier, they were paid to move there, and knew the risks. Their purpose is to establish Israeli settlements and further displace the Palestinians from their homes.
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NerdWednesday, January 10th 2007.

Dawson

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I actually believe Kyuubi when he says he knows a lot of Jews. It explains why he bought the woodchipper.
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AxeUnleashed

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Dawson

I actually believe Kyuubi when he says he knows a lot of Jews. It explains why he bought the woodchipper.



Try and respond to the rest of my post, or do you just want to attack me again?
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MrSnuggles

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KyuubiWarrior

It's not like America and Israel haven't had civilian casualties in their bombings, I posted an article on that last week, ISN'T THAT WHAT THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT? Just because it's not a suicide bombing, that doesn't mean innocent civilians aren't dying. It's part of war, and always will be.


sure, but theres a difference between collateral damage and INTENTIONALLY killing innocent people. except, wait... the joos arent innocent people, they are evil villains. nevermind.

I have nothing against Jews, many of my friends are Jews, the Koron says nothing against Jews, throughout history Arabs and Muslim Empires have given Jews asylum and protection when no one else would; so please, stop using that same comment over and over again.


it says plenty of negative and antagonistic things about jews.

Plus, every citizen in Israel is a trained soldier, they were paid to move there, and knew the risks. Their purpose is to establish Israeli settlements and further displace the Palestinians from their homes.


and the paranoid rationalization for genocide comes out. sorry pal, israeli jews just want to live in peace and freedom like the rest of us. they dont have evil intentions like you seem to think.
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AxeUnleashed

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MrSnuggles

it says plenty of negative and antagonistic things about jews.



I've read it six times and memorized about 7% of it by heart, if you really think you know more about it then me, please, show me some of these (from a standard Qur'an translation site)

and the paranoid rationalization for genocide comes out. sorry pal, israeli jews just want to live in peace and freedom like the rest of us. they dont have evil intentions like you seem to think.



So you deny that they're paid and trained?

I know a family that just moved there under those conditions. They had to "prove their Hebrew heritage" they were then paid, and never seen in the US again.
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Orange

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God, why do people keep on ****ing with the Jews? Seriously. Just ****ing stop it, KyuubiWarrior. Sure they control a lot of the money in the world, what exactly did they do for you? You have a job, you get paid. Get the **** over it, you ****face. I'd like to find all those anti-Semites and rip their goddamn balls off, and shove them down their throats.
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AxeUnleashed

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Orange

God, why do people keep on ****ing with the Jews? Seriously. Just ****ing stop it, KyuubiWarrior. Sure they control a lot of the money in the world, what exactly did they do for you? You have a job, you get paid. Get the **** over it, you ****face. I'd like to find all those anti-Semites and rip their goddamn balls off, and shove them down their throats.



How old are you, really?

I'm not anti-semitic, I'm anti-zionist (against the occupation of Palestine.) You better be younger than 15.
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Is America being run by complete idiots?
NerdWednesday, January 10th 2007.

MrSnuggles

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KyuubiWarrior

I've read it six times and memorized about 7% of it by heart, if you really think you know more about it then me, please, show me some of these (from a standard Qur'an translation site)


why waste my time when you will just deny, deny, deny which is what all good muslims do when faced with criticism.



So you deny that they're paid and trained?


paid and trained for what?

I know a family that just moved there under those conditions. They had to "prove their Hebrew heritage" they were then paid, and never seen in the US again.


yes, because they want jews in a jewish state, not mexicans or the irish. and if it takes money to encourage people to emigrate, so what? i dont see what is so heinous about that.
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AxeUnleashed

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MrSnuggles


paid and trained for what?

yes, because they want jews in a jewish state, not mexicans or the irish. and if it takes money to encourage people to emigrate, so what? i dont see what is so heinous about that.



Nothings wrong with that, I'm just saying that every person who moves there knows the risks (which is why the need money to be convinced), they are given brief military training (everyone) when they get there. There are no civilians in Israel, I told you this months ago and we got over that argument, I guess you just forget all the times I prove a point that you can't bull**** your way out of.
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leafs rule

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I don't think children are trained for the military. But you're right, Israel sucks and so does the USA. Thank ____ for Canada!
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AxeUnleashed

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leafs rule

I don't think children are trained for the military. But you're right, Israel sucks and so does the USA. Thank ____ for Canada!



Once they reach a certain age, it's fairly low (pre/early teens for the early training I think)
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Thank...Flying Spaghetti Monster?
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US strikes on al-Qa'ida chiefs kill nomads
By Anne Penketh and Steve Bloomfield
Published: 13 January 2007

The herdsmen had gathered with their animals around large fires at night to ward off mosquitoes. But lit up by the flames, they became latest victims of America's war on terror.

It was their tragedy to be misidentified in a secret operation by special forces attempting to kill three top al-Qa'ida leaders in south-ern Somalia.

Oxfam yesterday confirmed at least 70 nomads in the Afmadow district near the border with Kenya had been killed. The nomads were bombed at night and during the day while searching for water sources. Meanwhile, the US ambassador to Kenya has acknowledged that the onslaught on Islamist fighters failed to kill any of the three prime targets wanted for their alleged role in the 1998 US embassy bombings in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam.

The wanted men are Fazul Abdullah Moham-med, Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan and Abu Taha al-Sudani, who were all supposedly sheltered by the Union of Islamic Courts during its short reign in Mogadishu.

The operation, which opened a new front in Washington's anti-terror campaign, seems to have backfired spectacularly in the five days since it was launched. In addition to the scores of Somali civilians killed, the simmering civil war in the failed state has been rekindled.

Yesterday concern was mounting at the high number of civilian casualties, despite a claim by the US ambassador, Michael Ranneberger, that no civilians had been killed or injured and that only one attack had taken place. The UN's refugee agency, UNHCR, reported that an estimated 100 people were wounded in Monday's air strikes on the small fishing village of Ras Kamboni launched from the US military base in Djibouti after a mobile phone intercept.

The operation was only confirmed by the Pentagon a day after it was launched and it continued despite international protests and warnings that it risked being counterproductive.

Yesterday the Americans had boots on the ground for the first time since a 1993 mission backfired and led to a humiliating withdrawal from Somalia. According to The Washington Post, a small number of US military personnel are in southern Somalia trying to determine exactly who was killed in the raids by an AC-130 gunship.

Oxfam - which had received reports from its Somali partner organisations about the herdsmen's deaths - and Amnesty International have asked whether the the air strikes violated international law.

"Under international law, there is a duty to distinguish between military and civilian targets," said Paul Smith-Lomas, Oxfam's regional director. "We are deeply concerned that this principle is not being adhered to, and that innocent people in Somalia are paying the price."

There is also concern that the attacks by American and Ethiopian gunships have fanned the country's civil war. Somalia's main warlords yesterday appeared to agree to disarm their militias and form a new national army. But as the warlords met with the Somali President, Abdullahi Yusuf, gun battles raged outside the presidential villa underlining the scale of the security problems.

Somalia has witnessed a fresh surge in violence this week as warlords have fought to regain old ground and Islamists have attacked government forces and their allies. The Ethiopian military, acting in support of the US-backed transitional government in Somalia, had only recently routed the Islamists from the capital.

Yesterday, fighting in Mogadishu claimed the lives of at least six militia men after a clash with troops. The gun battle was believed to have been sparked by an argument over a parking space.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/article2149716.ece
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MrSnuggles

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KyuubiWarrior

Nothings wrong with that, I'm just saying that every person who moves there knows the risks (which is why the need money to be convinced), they are given brief military training (everyone) when they get there. There are no civilians in Israel, I told you this months ago and we got over that argument, I guess you just forget all the times I prove a point that you can't bull**** your way out of.


ok, then that is also the case with every muslim in "palestine" or somalia or wherever. so quit blubbering about innocent people dying.

or you could just admit its an insane rationalization for support of genocide, which is clearly what you support.
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AxeUnleashed

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MrSnuggles

ok, then that is also the case with every muslim in "palestine" or somalia or wherever. so quit blubbering about innocent people dying.



Explain, I don't see how that's similar.
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MrSnuggles

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you whine that "innocent" people die when americans or jews bomb terrorists, yet you are here claiming that people eating dinner in a pizza parlor are perfectly viable targets for extermination. do you not see the hypocrisy? its frighteningly sick.
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AxeUnleashed

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MrSnuggles

you whine that "innocent" people die when americans or jews bomb terrorists, yet you are here claiming that people eating dinner in a pizza parlor are perfectly viable targets for extermination. do you not see the hypocrisy? its frighteningly sick.



They are trained soldiers who could, at any time, take up arms againts Palestinians, you shouldn't be talking about hypocracy.
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MrSnuggles

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is the same not true for "palestinians"? or are they just innocent, pure as the wind driven snow?

the fact that you are justifying suicide bombing cafes and restaurants is dispicable, hitler would be proud.
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I just wanna pop into this discussion here and say that I've never seen so many strawmen in a farmer's field before.

MrSnuggles

is the same not true for "palestinians"? or are they just innocent, pure as the wind driven snow?



Are the Palestinians being given money and training in return for moving into the region?

the fact that you are justifying suicide bombing cafes and restaurants is dispicable, hitler would be proud.



The biggest scare crow yet! There's a difference between the legitimacy of suicide bombing (which I've never seen Kyuubi agree with) and saying that people have been given military training.
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MrSnuggles

is the same not true for "palestinians"? or are they just innocent, pure as the wind driven snow?

the fact that you are justifying suicide bombing cafes and restaurants is dispicable, hitler would be proud.

I never once tried to justify suicide bombings, and the Palestinians are as innocent as any American citizen, they're people, that's it. Many of them try and defend themselves, this is a war, people will fight.
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MrSnuggles

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Caster13

Are the Palestinians being given money and training in return for moving into the region?


i dont know, but they are being given money for blowing themselves up in restaurants and shopping centers. but so what? does the fact that israel pays people to emigrate make it ok to kill innocent women and children?

The biggest scare crow yet! There's a difference between the legitimacy of suicide bombing (which I've never seen Kyuubi agree with) and saying that people have been given military training.


by saying that "they are all soldiers" he has legitimized killing anyone at any time for any reason. its genocide and its sick. i cant believe that you cant see that caster.

either youve become twisted in your attempts to oppose any and all things that i say, or you are blind. do you really buy in to his rationalization that men and women going about their daily lives are legitimate targets for terrorism? you could argue that every american is a legit target for terrorism as well, if you were so inclined and sick in the head.
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Caster13

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MrSnuggles

i dont know,



Then why are you make arguments based on things you don't know? I.e. comparing Palestinians to military trained Israelis.

Actually, hold on a second. In the next paragraph below (about being given money to blow themselves up), who exactly does "they" refer to?

but they are being given money for blowing themselves up in restaurants and shopping centers.



Yes, terrorists are being funded by people. But that's different than the Palestinian authority inviting people into the region with offers of military training.

but so what?



So that's an improper comparison.

does the fact that israel pays people to emigrate make it ok to kill innocent women and children?



I don't think so at all, but that's not why I popped into this discussion. Rather, I just wanted to point out that you claiming Kyuubi agrees with suicide bombing has nothing to do with the topic at hand, i.e. Israelis being given military training. Thus, the scare crow comment.

by saying that "they are all soldiers" he has legitimized killing anyone at any time for any reason. its genocide and its sick. i cant believe that you cant see that caster.



I'd say that would legitimize the killing of soldiers/military trained people. He's not saying all Jews are soldiers/military trained people.

Even then, I wouldn't say the status of "soldier" legitimizes that person being killed. Rather, I think it's just a statement pointing out the fact that they're obvious and expected targets of violence.

either youve become twisted in your attempts to oppose any and all things that i say, or you are blind.



I'd say I'm just being critical and paying attention to detail.

do you really buy in to his rationalization that men and women going about their daily lives are legitimate targets for terrorism?



I actually do think it's a stretch that doesn't work (It's very much possible that the people in Israel now didn't decide to move into the region because of being offered military training/money. And I don't have any knowledge of the facts in regards to whether or not all Israelis have been given military training/money either). But I also think what you've been saying definitely doesn't work any better.

Second, considering how he said he doesn't support suicide bombing, which I'd lump into the category of terrorism, I wouldn't say he's saying that they're "legitimate targets of terrorism" because, extrapolating on what he's said about suicide bombing, he doesn't consider terrorism to be legitimate to begin with.

you could argue that every american is a legit target for terrorism as well, if you were so inclined and sick in the head.



Uhm, how? He's said and his argument is based on Israelis have been given military training. As far as I can tell, the U.S. government isn't doing the same. This really doesn't have anything to do with inclination or sickness of the head, it's just a matter of logically sorting out the premises in an argument.
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MrSnuggles

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Caster13

Then why are you make arguments based on things you don't know? I.e. comparing Palestinians to military trained Israelis.


its possible that countries like iran, syria, hell even iraq have paid people to move to israel to pretend to be palestinians. hezbollah most assuredly pays people to attack israel.

Actually, hold on a second. In the next paragraph below (about being given money to blow themselves up), who exactly does "they" refer to?


suicide bombers.


Yes, terrorists are being funded by people. But that's different than the Palestinian authority inviting people into the region with offers of military training.


how do we know they dont?

So that's an improper comparison.


i wasnt comparing, i was pointing out that it doesnt matter. neither of those facts do.

I don't think so at all, but that's not why I popped into this discussion. Rather, I just wanted to point out that you claiming Kyuubi agrees with suicide bombing has nothing to do with the topic at hand, i.e. Israelis being given military training. Thus, the scare crow comment.


he has said that all men and women in israel are "soldiers", i can only assume he is talking about the ones eating and drinking in restaurants, etc.


I'd say that would legitimize the killing of soldiers/military trained people. He's not saying all Jews are soldiers/military trained people.


he said everyone in israel is a "soldier", therefore legit targets for extermination.

Even then, I wouldn't say the status of "soldier" legitimizes that person being killed. Rather, I think it's just a statement pointing out the fact that they're obvious and expected targets of violence.


but he qualifies EVERYONE as a soldier, not just those serving in uniform.


I'd say I'm just being critical and paying attention to detail.


id say you have a major problem with everything i say, reguardless of whether you agree or not.


I actually do think it's a stretch that doesn't work (It's very much possible that the people in Israel now didn't decide to move into the region because of being offered military training/money. And I don't have any knowledge of the facts in regards to whether or not all Israelis have been given military training/money either). But I also think what you've been saying definitely doesn't work any better.


tell me where im wrong. im simply saying that he has qualified EVERY person in israel as a "soldier", therefore making EVERY person in israel a legit target. ie. people in shopping malls, eating in restaurants, watching TV in their homes, etc. he DID NOT make a distinction between people in the active military and people in the private sector going about their own business.

Second, considering how he said he doesn't support suicide bombing, which I'd lump into the category of terrorism, I wouldn't say he's saying that they're "legitimate targets of terrorism" because, extrapolating on what he's said about suicide bombing, he doesn't consider terrorism to be legitimate to begin with.


terrorism, genocide, mass murder, extermination, whatever you want to call it.


Uhm, how? He's said and his argument is based on Israelis have been given military training. As far as I can tell, the U.S. government isn't doing the same. This really doesn't have anything to do with inclination or sickness of the head, it's just a matter of logically sorting out the premises in an argument.


its simple, the US is a democracy, its by, for, and of the people. therefore, they are responsible for their governments actions, blah blah blah, its the same arguement made by saddam, amahdeniwhackjob, and that churchill guy that hates america so much.

but its good to know that you dont think americans are legit targets of terrorism, or that they have somehow brought it upon themselves.
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AxeUnleashed

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Did you have a point MrSnuggles?
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MrSnuggles

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that you support genocide.
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Caster13

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MrSnuggles

its possible that countries like iran, syria, hell even iraq have paid people to move to israel to pretend to be palestinians. hezbollah most assuredly pays people to attack israel.



I'd say outside funding is a lot different than the actual government inviting people with military training to live in the region.

But anyway. "Pretend to be"? So I guess they're not real Palestinians? In that case, why would they be the same as Israelis?

suicide bombers.



So I guess, in contradiction to what you said here:

is the same not true for "palestinians"?

The Palestinians are not in the same situation, as you were actually referring to terrorists.

how do we know they dont?



Well, I don't. But I have this habit where I don't tend to believe or claim to know things things which aren't proven true with a decent amount of evidence.

i wasnt comparing, i was pointing out that it doesnt matter. neither of those facts do.



So:

(Palestinians, I presume you are referring to) are being given money for blowing themselves up in restaurants and shopping centers

doesn't matter in relation to... I don't know what you're trying to argue here anymore, actually.

he has said that all men and women in israel are "soldiers", i can only assume he is talking about the ones eating and drinking in restaurants, etc.



But he didn't say he supports suicide bombing.

he said everyone in israel is a "soldier", therefore legit targets for extermination.



Just like he didn't say he supports suicide bombing, I'm pretty sure he didn't say the word "extermination". I'm guessing, by labeling Israelis as "soldiers", he's claiming they're legit targets like any other soldier. Though, again, the legitimacy of using violence of soldiers is a bit of another topic altogether.

but he qualifies EVERYONE as a soldier, not just those serving in uniform.



Correction, technically, he qualifies anyone with military training as a soldier. Which, I think, is a valid argument.

id say you have a major problem with everything i say, reguardless of whether you agree or not.



I'd say you're memory is selective. Remember before in a bunch of other threads how I told you I don't agree with and have issues with some of the things involved with Islamic doctrine/dogma? E.g. gender inequality, attitude towards certain sexual orientations?

I don't have a problem with everything you say. Look, here's a thread where you made a post but I didn't respond to (your post specifically).

tell me where im wrong.



Sure. Right here:

the fact that you are justifying suicide bombing


Like I said:

There's a difference between the legitimacy of suicide bombing (which I've never seen Kyuubi agree with) and saying that people have been given military training.



im simply saying that he has qualified EVERY person in israel as a "soldier", therefore making EVERY person in israel a legit target. ie. people in shopping malls, eating in restaurants, watching TV in their homes, etc. he DID NOT make a distinction between people in the active military and people in the private sector going about their own business.



He qualified everybody in Israel as a soldier on the basis that the government there is giving them all military training. That, I'm guessing, is the distinction he's working off of. Here's a little experiment.

Hey Kyuubi, if an Israeli was not military trained and/or given money by the government to move into the area, is s/he a legitimate target (let's not get into the discussion of what it means to be a legitimate target, just take it in comparison to somebody else with the status of "soldier")?

terrorism, genocide, mass murder, extermination, whatever you want to call it.



Uhm, okay. I'll rephrase that for you: considering how he said he doesn't support suicide bombing, which I'd lump into the category of (insert choice of word here), I wouldn't say he's saying that they're "legitimate targets of (insert choice of word here)" because, extrapolating on what he's said about suicide bombing, he doesn't consider (insert choice of word here) to be legitimate to begin with.

its simple, the US is a democracy, its by, for, and of the people. therefore, they are responsible for their governments actions, blah blah blah, its the same arguement made by saddam, amahdeniwhackjob, and that churchill guy that hates america so much.



Uhm, except he hasn't said a thing about the nature of the relationship between citizen and government. He hasn't said a thing that would lead to this topic. All he's said is that Israelis are given military training.

but its good to know that you dont think americans are legit targets of terrorism, or that they have somehow brought it upon themselves.



"Bought it upon themselves" isn't the words I would use, but I do think that every action, including foreign policy, results in a reaction.
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NerdMonday, January 15th 2007.

AxeUnleashed

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MrSnuggles

that you support genocide.



I'm also pro-cancer.
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NerdMonday, January 15th 2007.

Batist

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I know this jewish girl who wants the israeli citizenship.

She started the paperworks and all she has to do now is serve 2 years in the military.
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