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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Batist

God

Posts: 36,070

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Location: Sainte Maxime

France is Gonna Die! It's a conspiracy to blow me up!
Accord signed in France on breakthrough nuclear reactor

Tue Nov 21, 8:41 AM ET

PARIS (AFP) - The EU and six nations have signed a treaty launching a multibillion-dollar experimental nuclear fusion research project, aimed at emulating the power of the sun to provide limitless, clean energy.

"This is a new step in an exceptional adventure," French
President Jacques Chirac said Tuesday after leading the signing ceremony in Paris that ended decades of tortuous negotiations.

Representatives from the
European Union, China, India, Japan, Russia,
South Korea and the United States signed the pact on the construction of the 10-billion-euro (12.8 billion dollar) reactor.

Originally called the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor but now known officially by its initials ITER (or "the way" in Latin), the facility is to be built in Cadarache, in southern France, over a decade starting 2008.

The project aims to research a clean and limitless alternative to dwindling fossil fuel reserves by testing nuclear fusion technologies.

Instead of splitting the atom -- the principle behind current nuclear plants -- the project seeks to harness nuclear fusion: the power of the sun and the stars achieved by fusing together atomic nuclei.

If it is successful, a prototype commercial reactor will be built, and if that works, fusion technology will be rolled out across the world.

Chirac said the experimental reactor was "a hand held out to future generations" and predicted that, if it proved successful, "we will be able to derive as much energy from a litre of seawater as from a litre of petrol or a kilo of coal."

The EU is to put up half the cost of building the reactor, with the rest evenly divided among the other parties. The project will employ 400 scientists, two-thirds of them non-French.

Following years of wrangling, Japan agreed in 2005 to withdraw its bid to host the project -- in exchange for 20 percent of staff posts including the director general's job.

A Japanese engineer turned ambassador, Kaname Ikeda, was named earlier this month to head the project.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, who was also in Paris Tuesday, called the signing "a major event" and a step forward to finding new energy sources that did not cause climate change.

In a fusion reaction, energy is released when light atomic nuclei - the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium - are fused together to form heavier atomic nuclei.

To use controlled fusion reactions on Earth as an energy source, it is necessary to heat a gas to temperatures exceeding 100 million Celsius - many times hotter than the centre of the sun.

One of the attractions of fusion is the tiny amount of fuel needed. The release of energy from a fusion reaction is 10 million times greater than from a typical chemical reaction, such as burning a fossil fuel.

But the project has been criticised by environmental groups like Greenpeace, who argue that the enormous cost will suck funds away from other areas of alternative energy research, with no guarantee that an effective method of simulating and harnessing the fusion process will ever be found.
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Kuriboo

Super

Posts: 12,190

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: A Galaxy far far away....

Bye Bye Buu
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

BEan

Microsoft certified

Posts: 10,871

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: On a rooftop with a bullhorn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Brian10488

Change is a sound

Posts: 10,877

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Location: Chicago

nuclear fusion won't happen..
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Jay

The Pinnacle of Manliness

Posts: 4,228

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Location: Tampa

We have already gotten close to achieving Nuclear Fusion. And if this plan goes through, then we will definitely achieve it.
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Brian10488

Change is a sound

Posts: 10,877

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Location: Chicago

meh, i still don't think it will be achieved anytime soon.
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

f1reburn

Fwoosh

Posts: 495

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Location: Europe

Not saying it can't be achieved, but it seems a bit perpetuum mobile-ish.
NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Jay

The Pinnacle of Manliness

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Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Tampa

Brian10488

meh, i still don't think it will be achieved anytime soon.


And why do you think that?
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

LinKami Deschain

RIP Yoshito Usui :-(

Posts: 6,120

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: anywhere the greenville scene is not

better them than us.
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Knight of Cydonia

The Real Lakitu

Posts: 4,060

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Belgium

f1reburn

Not saying it can't be achieved, but it seems a bit perpetuum mobile-ish.

Not really, like any other energy-providing process it requires a "fuel", the fun part being there's enough heavy water on this earth to keep the reactor going for millions of years, and enough lithium for thousands of years. The main problem at hand is not the possibility of the process, but the possibility of us starting up such a process, bring it up to such a level where it is actually efficient and harvesting the energy while safely contain it at the same time.

As with the criticism that this entire project detracts too many research funds from other fields of alternative energy, we must take into account that this is our best hope for an efficient alternative to nuclear fission and fossil fuels for the future, contrary to wind, solar, or tidal energies and bio-fuels, it's the only process that would be just as efficient regardless of the location of where it's needed, solar energy may be efficient and cheap in places where the sun shines almost day in day out, but in other places where this is far from the case, the technology would be far less effective and thus more expensive, and the same goes for the wind and tidal energies, as for the bio-fuels, well they sound reasonable, but again crops would have to be grown, again more or less efficient based on location, and I don't know if eventually we can "grow" all the energy we'd need, even if we all cut back... but that's Greenpeace for you, they're just not realistic in their intentions, I care for the environment up to a realistic level, they go far beyond such a thing...
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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass. Frown

NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

thaddius

No crying until the end.

Posts: 4,103

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Location: Inukjuak

BEan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island



I think you mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Brian10488

Change is a sound

Posts: 10,877

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Location: Chicago

Yea, chernobyl was the worst one.
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Jay

The Pinnacle of Manliness

Posts: 4,228

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Location: Tampa

Chernobyl had nothing to do with a fusion reactor though, so bringing that up is pointless
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

thaddius

No crying until the end.

Posts: 4,103

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Inukjuak

Jay

Chernobyl had nothing to do with a fusion reactor though, so bringing that up is pointless



The guy brought up Three Mile Island. I was correcting him.

And they do have much to do with eachother. It deals with a reactor melt down which is exactly what Majinbuu speculatedfeared..
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Jay

The Pinnacle of Manliness

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Location: Tampa

Yes but a reactor meltdown is very, very unlikely with the new design of this fusion reactor
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

thaddius

No crying until the end.

Posts: 4,103

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Inukjuak

Jay

Yes but a reactor meltdown is very, very unlikely with the new design of this fusion reactor



Oh. Sorry sir. I didn't realize we were dealing with a fusion reactor specialist. Since fision reactors are theoretical, you can't know for sure that it will be 'stable'.

Whatever, the liklihood of a fusion reactor is not the point here, Majinbuu's subject title is 'France is Gonna Die! It's a conspiracy to blow me up!'

To me this implies that he's talking about the possibility of a meltdown. And someone mentioned three mile island, which was almost a meltdown, whereas I corrected him by saying he meant Chernobyl. So stop worrying about it, k?

I'm interested to see how this project turns out.
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Jay

The Pinnacle of Manliness

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Location: Tampa

Not once did I say I was a specialist. I'm just telling you what I have read from multiple sources, as well as my (limited, but more than most) knowlege of nuclear fusion.
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

thaddius

No crying until the end.

Posts: 4,103

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Inukjuak

Jay

Not once did I say I was a specialist.



It's called sarcasm dude. Wink
My point is just that there are no fusion reactors out there to support your claim of a 'stable' reactor.

No problem though. If the sun can do it countless times a day, we can do it too. It's just that the sun is an uncontrolled fusion reactor that is constantly exploding. Here's hoping we can control it, for Frances' sake. They got the Louvre.
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Jay

The Pinnacle of Manliness

Posts: 4,228

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Tampa

And Majinbuu
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NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

danytoca

sun

Posts: 4,792

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Nuclear energy ftw
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dani tuga?
NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Brian10488

Change is a sound

Posts: 10,877

Join Date: Oct 2003

Location: Chicago

Jay

Yes but a reactor meltdown is very, very unlikely with the new design of this fusion reactor

wow, you obviously don't know s*** about nuclear energy.


wow.

sure, it's safer than fission, but there is still possibilty of accidents
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Let's bury the hatchet. We smoke um peace pipe! -Jerry Seinfeld

NerdTuesday, November 21st 2006.

Jay

The Pinnacle of Manliness

Posts: 4,228

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Tampa

Go to howstuffworks.com and look up Nuclear Fusion and the new reactor that they are building. That will tell you, the likelyhood of a meltdown. It is you that clearly doesn't know much about nuclear energy
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NerdWednesday, November 22nd 2006.

Batist

God

Posts: 36,070

Join Date: Jan 2002

Location: Sainte Maxime

I'm a bit spectical of energy 1,000,000x more powerful then the sun. Can we really contain that?

oh, and it won't happen soon because the plant won't be finished till 2018...

..yeah..

I have 12 years left to live Frown
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NerdWednesday, November 22nd 2006.

thaddius

No crying until the end.

Posts: 4,103

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Inukjuak

Majinbuu

I have 12 years left to live Frown



GRAB AS MANY WHORES AS YOU CAN AND GET THE **** OUT OF THERE!!!!!
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NerdWednesday, November 22nd 2006.

Drunken Savior

Jeffersonian

Posts: 5,163

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Location: West Coast

Wanna see where all the world's nuclear plants are? (Both operational and shut down) Click here.

Personally, I think it's a good form of energy. But we can do better.
NerdThursday, November 23rd 2006.

Batist

God

Posts: 36,070

Join Date: Jan 2002

Location: Sainte Maxime

Europe has too many nuclear plants.
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NerdThursday, November 23rd 2006.

Knight of Cydonia

The Real Lakitu

Posts: 4,060

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Location: Belgium

Europe needs energy, it's by far the region with highest population density in the world. People who are against nuclear power plants, often simply don't realise how much power is derived from them, and how dependent they themselves are on it too. I'm not pro-nuclear (fission) energy, but it'll take time to develop reasonable alternatives and to cut back on some of our consumption.
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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass. Frown

NerdThursday, November 23rd 2006.

zBuff

Hothead

Posts: 743

Join Date: Jun 2005

Majinbuu

I'm a bit spectical of energy 1,000,000x more powerful then the sun.



Where did you get that idea, fusion is the same reaction that takes place in the sun, maybe if we were talking about antimatter.

I reckon we'll see fusion as a standard energy source in our lifetimes,, with the human race's ever increasing hunger for more energy it's bound to happen. Just as well they're building it in France, if Japan got the bid, they'd probably try to build portable fusion reactors to put in mechs or something.

Oh Asia would be the region with the highest population density BTW Knight.

 
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