Nerd Mentality

Pope remark offends Muslim leaders

By Ahmad Pathoni 2 hours, 1 minute ago

JAKARTA (Reuters) -
Pope Benedict's comments about Islam could hurt global religious harmony, government and religious leaders in the world's most populous Muslim countries said on Friday.
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A growing chorus of Muslim leaders have called on the Pope to apologize for the remarks he made in a speech in Germany on Tuesday when he used the terms "jihad" and "holy war."

Pakistan's National Assembly, parliament's lower house, unanimously passed a resolution condemning the Pope's comments.

"This statement has hurt sentiments of the Muslims," the resolution said. "This is also against the charter of the
United Nations. This house demands the Pope retract his remarks in the interest of harmony among different religions of the world."

Pakistan is the world's second most populous Muslim nation after Indonesia.

Islamic scholars say the Pontiff's comments show how little he understands Islam and some have said Islamic countries should threaten to break off relations with the
Vatican.

The Vatican issued a statement to say the Pope had never meant to offend Islam.

In his speech at the University of Regensburg, Benedict quoted criticism of Islam and the Prophet Mohammad by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who wrote that everything Mohammad brought was evil and inhuman, "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Benedict repeatedly quoted Manuel's argument that spreading the faith through violence is unreasonable, adding: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul."

The reaction was swift.

"It is obvious from the statements that the Pope doesn't have a correct understanding of Islam," said Din Syamsuddin, chairman of Muhammadiyah, the second largest Islamic organization in Indonesia.

Syamsuddin told Reuters the remarks could hurt "harmonious" relations between Muslims and Catholics and urged Muslims against reacting excessively.

"Whether the Pope apologizes or not, the Islamic community should show that Islam is a religion of compassion," he said.

Fauzan Al-Anshori, spokesman for the radical Indonesian Mujahideen Council, said the Pope misunderstood Islam and jihad (Islamic holy war or struggle) and challenged him to a dialogue.

"Muslims can't eliminate jihad from the Islamic discourse, the same way Christians can't do away with the doctrine of Trinity," he said.

The Vatican press office said the Pope had not intended to carry out an in-depth study of jihad and Muslim thinking about it, "even less to offend the sensitivity of the Muslim faithful."

TOLERANT RELIGION

Washington's response to September 11, invading
Afghanistan and
Iraq and tightening civil freedoms as part of a wider "war on terror," has created a widespread feeling among Muslims worldwide that their religion is under attack.

A row earlier this year over Danish cartoons that depicted the Prophet Mohammad deepened the sense of a divide between Islamic culture and the West.

Indonesia's Anshori said the recent surge in Muslim radicalism was a response to America's "crusade" against Muslims.

"We believe in respect for each other, freedom for Muslims to practice Islamic teachings and for Christians to practice their religion," he said.

Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit said he was worried the Pope's statements might upset efforts to bring about a rapprochement between West and East.

"He (Aboul Gheit) said he looked forward to intensifying efforts to strengthen the dialogue between civilizations and religions and to avoid anything that is likely to exacerbate confessional and ideological differences," an Egyptian foreign ministry statement said.

Pakistan's Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said that anyone who felt that Islam was intolerant or Islam spread through use of force showed ignorance.

"Statements of this nature are very unhelpful in the efforts that we are making to bridge the gap and promote understanding between different religions," he added.

In New Delhi, Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the chief cleric of the historic Jama Masjid, India's largest mosque, extolled Muslims to respond to the Pope's comments.

"No Pope has ever tried to attack the glory of Islam like this Pope," Bukhari said to chants of "Allah-hu-Akbar" (God is Great) by thousands of worshippers at the sprawling mosque.

"Muslims must respond in a manner which forces the Pope to apologize," he added after Friday prayers. He did not elaborate.

(Additional reporting by Zeeshan Haider in Islamabad, Kamil Zaheer in New Delhi, Jonathan Wright in Cairo)

that's give radical muslims to strike again, good job mr.pope
___________________
The Dragons are Gone!

In New Delhi, Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the chief cleric of the historic Jama Masjid, India's largest mosque, extolled Muslims to respond to the Pope's comments.

"No Pope has ever tried to attack the glory of Islam like this Pope," Bukhari said to chants of "Allah-hu-Akbar" (God is Great) by thousands of worshippers at the sprawling mosque.

"Muslims must respond in a manner which forces the Pope to apologize," he added after Friday prayers. He did not elaborate.

He's an odious preacher of hate. What the hell do you think he was talking about?
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Dolphin

*obligatory Hitler Youth post*

**** you, asshole. He had no choice!

I stand by the Pope. I am a devout Roman Catholic.

CanBlindBirdsFly?

**** you, asshole. He had no choice!

I stand by the Pope. I am a devout Roman Catholic.

Why would you stand by an ignorant leader? How is he helping you religiously?
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Strange days indeed.

Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

^It's not that he doesn't have a valid point, it's who he is to make that point... it's like the a pot calling the kettle black...

Dude, enough already. We're all well aware of your pro-communism anti-God stance on... everything.

Moreover I don't remember influential Catholic figures calling for us to invade the Middle East and convert the infidels by threat of death anytime in the past... 400 years or so. The closest thing was probably Ann Coulter

So no, it's not really the pot calling the kettle black.

Well the Pope apparently is bringing together all kinds of people:

In India!

And is even bringing sunnis and shiias together in Iraq!

Heckuva job, Brownie!

You know what's funny? All of these articles just say Pope was mean Muslims friendly but rightfully mad. They don't even quote what the Pope said, just the negative points of the person he quoted. It's such obviously biased crap. It's inconcievable judging from the article that he could be right about violent tendancies of Muslism. He's just another intolerant conservative that must be destroyed for our great athiestic communist utopia to rise up, amirite?

MrSnuggles

what we have here is another case of leftists bending over for radical, violent islam while remaining hostile towards peaceful, tolerant christianity.

so the poped called islam what it truly is, so what?

If that's what Islam is truly is, I'd expect to see a lot more intolerant, violent people around where I live considering the relatively high population of Muslims/Mid-Easterners. Not much going on in little ol' Mississauga, though. Other then the occasional gang/drug-related shootings or domestic dispute/love affair murders.
___________________
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Wi-Fi ID: 1627 8934 4983 8539

MrSnuggles

what we have here is another case of leftists bending over for radical, violent islam while remaining hostile towards peaceful, tolerant christianity.

so the poped called islam what it truly is, so what?

If that's what Islam is truly is, I'd expect to see a lot more intolerant, violent people around where I live considering the relatively high population of Muslims/Mid-Easterners. Not much going on in little ol' Mississauga, though. Other then the occasional gang/drug-related shootings or domestic dispute/love affair murders.
___________________
"I have captured the enemy for meat testing! Praise me! PRAISE ME!!!" -GIR
Wi-Fi ID: 1627 8934 4983 8539

MrSnuggles

i guess you missed all the "peaceful" muslims that became violent after they heard the pope proclaim that islam was violent.

Funny, I did a Google search and didn't find anything of the like in Mississauga.

By the way, have you checked your PMs?
___________________
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Wi-Fi ID: 1627 8934 4983 8539

Robjomak

Do any of you have a counter-argument or just want to bash the Pope?

Didn't think so. He's right: swordpoint conversion is unholy and unacceptable.

If Muslims object to that sentiment, maybe they should change the Koran. Oh wait.

I like our Pope. All the powers of a Sith and all the balls of a conservative

Hey! I'm a Muslim that objects to that statement!

Gee, what could this mean...? Have I been following my faith incorrectly all those years?

Ouch...what can I say? sucks for me...and my family...and my friends...and every other respectful person who accepted Islam as their faith.

Change the Koran you say?

MrSnuggles

so the poped called islam what it truly is, so what?

hm, funny the Koran I was taught by must have been a bad copy or something. Weird. Those idiots that you see on TV blowing up things all the time must have learned the true teachings of Islam then.


Thanks for the info guys! I really didn't know what I was getting involved with!!!

not

More closely to the topic I do not know whether the Pope believed in the statement he quoted from the other person, but I do believe it was unwise of him to revive such obviously sensitive remarks.

Robjomak

Dude, enough already. We're all well aware of your pro-communism anti-God stance on... everything.

Moreover I don't remember influential Catholic figures calling for us to invade the Middle East and convert the infidels by threat of death anytime in the past... 400 years or so. The closest thing was probably Ann Coulter

So no, it's not really the pot calling the kettle black.

Firstly I'm not a communist or pro-communist, don't start to generalise and demonise like MrSnuggles, will you?
I'm not anti-god either, if you want to formulate it with another "anti" I'm anti-organised religions like the Catholic Church, like Islam, like Hinduism... etc. It's not because Islam is doing the best at attempting to destroy human civilisation today, that Catholicism can't do the same tomorrow (it already has in the past). I don't buy into this dialogue between religion crap, 'cause in the end it won't work, we'd be better of eliminating as much of it's influence in the contemporary civilised world as possible.

You do realise that apparently many muslims consider the war against terror simply a new crusade? (thank your president/administration and his handy handling of the situation for that)

Oh, and it is the pot calling the cettle black, perhaps the pot has a nice new layer of paint on top, but if anything that layer remains thin, and the black underneat still shimmers through. (Thanks to people like that Ann Coulter you named)
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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

Hey! I'm a Muslim that objects to that statement!

Gee, what could this mean...? Have I been following my faith incorrectly all those years?

Ouch...what can I say? sucks for me...and my family...and my friends...and every other respectful person who accepted Islam as their faith.

Change the Koran you say?

I'm just being flippant about the whole situation. People are aghast that the Pope would take a jab at Islam - but it's only a jab if the religion actually teaches that swordpoint conversions are God's command. The meaning and true command of the Koran is up to Muslims to decide for themselves. The western world is just left to say: if you reach the wrong conclusions, prepare to be opposed philosophically, and if it comes to it, physically.

Firstly I'm not a communist or pro-communist, don't start to generalise and demonise like MrSnuggles, will you?
I'm not anti-god either, if you want to formulate it with another "anti" I'm anti-organised religions like the Catholic Church, like Islam, like Hinduism... etc. It's not because Islam is doing the best at attempting to destroy human civilisation today, that Catholicism can't do the same tomorrow (it already has in the past). I don't buy into this dialogue between religion crap, 'cause in the end it won't work, we'd be better of eliminating as much of it's influence in the contemporary civilised world as possible.

And I'm saying that sentiment is sick, corrupt, and the calling card of communism. If you let the mistakes of a few hundreds, even thousands of years ago blind you to the contributions and continuing good works of many faiths, it's your own damn business/problem. But if you just keep spewing a diatribe about how evil any and all organized religions are you can expect to be reamed about it. Not to mention manipulated by people with truly evil intentions. Ie communists. So let your hate fester quietly or something. Save your vocal cords for when the Catholic Church calls another Crusade, since you're so convinced it's going to happen imminently.

Oh, and it is the pot calling the cettle black, perhaps the pot has a nice new layer of paint on top, but if anything that layer remains thin, and the black underneat still shimmers through. (Thanks to people like that Ann Coulter you named)

PS she's not Catholic.

Pope Benedict XVI "sincerely regrets" that Muslims have been offended by some of his words in a recent speech in Germany, the Vatican said Saturday — stopping short of issuing an apology the Islamic world has demanded.

The new Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, said the pope's position on Islam is unmistakably in line with Vatican teaching that the church regards Muslims with "esteem."

Thus, the pope "sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful and should have been interpreted in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions," Bertone said in a statement.

"Indeed it was he who, before the religious fervor of Muslim believers, warned secularized Western culture to guard against 'the contempt for God and the cynicism that considers mockery of the sacred to be an exercise of freedom,'" Bertone said, citing words from another speech that Benedict gave during the German trip.

"In reiterating his respect and esteem for those who profess Islam, he hopes that they will be helped to understand the correct meaning of his words," the cardinal said.

The words, in a speech Benedict gave to university professors earlier in the week during a pilgrimage to his homeland, angered many in the Islamic world and raised doubts over whether a planned trip to predominantly Muslim Turkey in late November would go ahead.

Muslim leaders have been unappeased by previous overtures by Vatican officials and have demanded the pope apologize for his remarks on Islam and jihad, or holy war. The Vatican has said that Benedict only meant to emphasize the incompatibility between faith and war.

Benedict on Tuesday cited an obscure Medieval text that characterizes some of the teachings of Islam's founder as "evil and inhuman" — comments some experts took as a signal the Vatican was staking a more demanding stance for its dealings with the Muslim world.

When giving the speech, the pope stressed that he was quoting the words of a Byzantine emperor and did not comment directly on the "evil and inhuman" assessment.

Bertone, referring Saturday to the emperor's "opinion," said "the Holy Father did not mean, nor does he mean, to make that opinion his own in any way."

The cardinal pointed out that the pope was speaking in an academic setting and suggested that a "complete and attentive reading" of the entire text would make clear the pope's reflections about the relationship between religion and violence in general.

He said the pope's speech ended with "clear and radical rejection of the religious motivation for violence, from whatever side it may come."

Bertone also cited other recent statements by the pope which he said makes "unequivocally" clear the pope's work in favor of intercultural and interreligious dialogue.

He noted that during Benedict's pilgrimage to Germany last year, shortly after being elected pope, the pontiff called for both Christians and Muslims to walk down the "paths of reconciliation and learn to life with respect for each other's identity."

In a recent message to mark the 20th anniversary of Pope John Paul II's interreligious prayer gathering in Assisi, Italy, Benedict stressed that violence should not be attributed to religion in itself but to "cultural limitations" over time.

The pope's first public appearance to the general public since his return from Germany is set for Sunday, when he is to greet the faithful at Castel Gandolfo, the papal summer residence in the Alban Hills near Rome.

The rage unleashed by Benedict's comments stirred fears of anti-Western protests like those that followed the publication in a Danish newspaper of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

Two churches in the West Bank were hit by firebombs Saturday, and a group claiming responsibility said it was protesting Benedict's words.

Ah, fast media and taking things out of context. Fun.
___________________
"I have captured the enemy for meat testing! Praise me! PRAISE ME!!!" -GIR
Wi-Fi ID: 1627 8934 4983 8539

Yeah that was a very Bush-like non-apology. Rather than being sorry for making a mistake, he's sorry the recipient felt so offended.

Well since there's no mistake here to feel sorry for that kind of makes sense, doesn't it?

Ninjazn

Religion is the cause of so much hate.

Agreed

Dawson

What do you think of Catholicism, acorn?

Why are you asking?

Dawson

Anyway, what do you like best about Islam?

I like it coz' you get to wear a turban and eat dates and fig leaves.