Nerd Mentality

LOUISVILLE, KY, United States (UPI) -- A middle-school teacher in Kentucky who burned small U.S. flags in two classes during a discussion of free speech has been removed from teaching.

Lauren Roberts, a spokeswoman for the Jefferson County Public Schools in Louisville, said that at least one parent of a student at the Stuart Middle School had complained about Dan Holden's actions, the Louisville Courier-Journal reported.

Holden teaches seventh-grade social studies, but has been placed on non-teaching duties pending an investigation.

Roberts said Holden's judgment was in question. She said the district had also notified fire officials.

'Certainly we're concerned about the safety aspect,' Roberts said.

Source

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand if it was done tastefully I see no problem with it but if he went all psycho with it then I could definantly see how it isn't proper classroom action.

School officials in Louisville reassigned a teacher after he burned two American flags in his class to apparently motivate his students for an assignment, according to a report.

A Jefferson County Public Schools official said Dan Holden, a seventh-grade social studies teacher at Stuart Middle School, burned a small flag in each of his two classes.

Officials said he told administrators he was trying to motivate his students for a weekend writing assignment on the freedom of speech.

The school district didn't find out about it until a reporter asked questions the next day, the report said.

Officials said they have received only one complaint, none from parents.

However, officials said there are two important issues involved. One is the safety of students in regard to having an open flame in the classroom. The other is the propriety of burning a flag.

"The issue is the possible endangerment of children by having an open flame in the classroom," School District representative Lauren Roberts said. "That is definitely a safety issue. And then also the issue of the actual burning of a flag and the symbolism of that is highly offensive to many people. And could there have been a better way to have demonstrated those concepts to those students without going to that extreme?"

The district has contacted fire officials and said Holden could face criminal charges.

Holden has been a teacher in Jefferson County schools since 1979 and has been at Stuart Middle School since 2001. He has no disciplinary record.

Source

Ok so he did it to motivate the class. that doesn't seem too bad. Danger of an open flame...well I could see the worry in that depending on the size of the flags.

A Kentucky seventh-grade teacher's attempt to provide his students with a lesson in freedom of speech went up in smoke Monday when he was removed from the classroom for burning two American flags.

Administrators didn't appreciate the demonstration by Dan Holden, a social studies teacher at Stuart Middle School in Louisville, Kentucky, who burned small American flags in two different classrooms on Friday and then asked students to write an opinion paper about it, according to Louisville's Courier-Journal.

"Certainly we're concerned about the safety aspect," said Jefferson County School District spokeswoman Lauren Roberts, adding that the district is also worried about "the judgment of using that type of demonstration in a class."

Holden, who could not be reached for comment, has been teaching in the district since 1979, but has been temporarily reassigned to non-instructional duties pending a district investigation. The paper reported that the district also alerted city fire officials, who are conducting their own investigation.

Roberts said that based on an interview with Holden, the flag burning didn't appear to be politically motivated, but that didn't appease the anger of some parents with children in Holden's classroom.

"She said, 'Our teacher burned a flag.' I'm like, 'What?' " said Pat Summers, whose daughter was in Holden's class. "When I was [at the school] at 8 a.m. [Monday], the lobby was filled with probably 25 or 30 parents" who were upset, he said. Summers said Holden told students to ask their parents what they thought about the lesson. Roberts added that no advance notice had been given to parents or school administrators about the demonstration.

As is the case in many recent election years, the issue of flag burning has been at the center of Congressional attention lately, as part of a package of typically go-nowhere debates on issues such as Constitutional bans on gay marriage aimed at firing up voters in advance of the upcoming November midterm Congressional elections (see "Why Is Congress Debating Flag-Burning Instead Of Global Warming? It's An Election Year"). The Senate failed to pass a Constitutional amendment banning flag desecration earlier this year.

Kentucky has a statute last amended in 1992 making desecration of a national or state flag in a public place a misdemeanor, but the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that flag desecration is protected speech. The American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky told the paper that the federal ruling would trump the state statute in this case.

From sixth graders like Kelsey Adwell, 11 — who said students just "can't believe that a teacher would do that, burn two American flags in front of the class. ... A teacher shouldn't do that, even though it was an example" — to school board members, the reaction to the demonstration was intense. Board member Pat O'Leary told the Courier-Journal that he thought the flag burning was unnecessary and could have offended some students, including those in military families. "A teacher doesn't do that," he said. "It's just disrespectful."

Though some parents had called for Holden to be fired, Adwell's mother, school PTA president Ginny Adwell, said that was a bit overboard, reminding them that Holden was trying to provoke thought with his lesson.

Source

Ok so one says officials have only gotten one complaint and another has 25-30 angry parents that haven't complained to officials yet?
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Adrian

I hate schoolkids and their idiot parents, for the most part.

EXCUSE ME? I'm SORRY I don't fit into the mold of a perfect student, but seriously.


I'm a good kid

CRACKER

a bunch of mexicans took down the american flag and put up the Mexican flag on Mexican Independace day.

Now that is wrong.

Last national holiday here (21/07/06), some city hall in the west of our country, put up the German flag instead of the Belgian... Idiots, they we're the laughing stock of the country...

Behold the "subtle" differences:

Belgium:


Germany:

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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

Assman

He violated the fire code! GET HIM!

Why couldn't he just role play, and pretend he was some angry, hippie liberal who hated this country while jumping up and down on the flag?

Silly, that's because if you want to pretend to be a liberal hippie, you jam the flagstick in your bum and take a picture to be put up in librul-type museums.
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I was young and confused and your mom didn't want me around no more. Now pass me dem damn collard greens!

zig

I have the display of signatures turned off because it is a dumb concept and you are dumb if you have one.

Pithy

I'd burn a flag, sure.

I think the reason why people are against it is because of what the flag actually stands for though.

The constitutions and the amendments, oh god NUMBER 1!!!!!!!!!!!


hmmm sounds like the grandfather paradox, if I burn the flag no more free speech, yet burning it is a symbol of free speech, oh wait the flag is just a thing which every country has. I have the deepest respect for people that fought for our country but this was a demonstration. People need to relax!

Caster13

A chemistry lab is equipped to handle volatile and combustable material; in my school, every single chemistry lab had its own fire hose, it's own fire extinguisher, eye cleaner stations, emergency shower, and every single table had a sink--a social science class room, I'd expect, wouldn't.

My chemistry lab has that stuff

is

flags don't mean ****. Did'nt some futurama episode prove that?

Yes they ****ING DO! It's a symbol of what our forfathers did for our country! If you burn a flag because of regulations and so fourth of how you treat the flag I can occur, or if you need to survive, etc. But if you burn a flag to say it as if you hate America thats disrespecting my forfathers that helped shape our land for the better! Burning a flag is just saying **** you to the ones that died to keep this country the way it was.

Hell, burn the flag for all I care, but when your doing it your saying everything we made for the better is BS.

I like to pay my respects! You people are more concerned about your agenda than you are about anything else.

im not american so burning the american flag is nt a issue for me . but if someone wanted to burn my aussie falg i would nt be happy

Thats my point!
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Now if only I could change to Mr Fat instead of Miss round and plump.

unkwon

Yes they ****ING DO! It's a symbol of what our forfathers did for our country! If you burn a flag because of regulations and so fourth of how you treat the flag I can occur, or if you need to survive, etc. But if you burn a flag to say it as if you hate America thats disrespecting my forfathers that helped shape our land for the better! Burning a flag is just saying **** you to the ones that died to keep this country the way it was.

Hell, burn the flag for all I care, but when your doing it your saying everything we made for the better is BS.

I like to pay my respects! You people are more concerned about your agenda than you are about anything else.



Thats my point!

Pay your respects to who? the rich who profited off wars that never needed to happen? You act so naive'. Our fathers? are you quoting someone or something? Seriously get some sense of your own.

Free speech is free speech, its more of a symbol for this country then a flag ever could be. A flag is not real, it does not affect your daily life watsoever. Free speech does, and if that means flags will be burned than so be it.
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Pandas_UNITE

Pay your respects to who? the rich who profited off wars that never needed to happen? You act so naive'. Our fathers? are you quoting someone or something? Seriously get some sense of your own.

Free speech is free speech, its more of a symbol for this country then a flag ever could be. A flag is not real, it does not affect your daily life watsoever. Free speech does, and if that means flags will be burned than so be it.

No I'm not basing that off of someone else. That really is my opionon when you burn the flag you say your hate your country and even for the men and women who died even if it is a rich mans war! Sure burning the flag might say "**** you Bush", but it definately says **** you to those who are dying in the battlefield as we speak risking there own necks for a war they don't want to fight! Also for the men and women who fought world wars, etc.

It's a two way street!

Like I said before. You can burn it for all I care but flag burning is basicly saying **** you to any country that has that flag unless it's under code. It's a speech in it's own right too! Sure speech is more important but that flag does represent that speech! Our forfathers probubly would'nt care if we did burn flags. As I support flag burning because it's a proper thing to do when it is in ruins. But I don't like it when people act it's totaly okay to burn out of hatred! Burning flags mean you hate your country. Freedom of speech or not, it's tacky!

Thats like me if I where on a rampage calling you guys hippies and commies! Does' that sound polite and nice!? Would you like it if I where to talk how great fox news is or how the Ku Klux Klan are the more wonderfull people and all the blacks and colored people need to move back china!?(I know thats not true but I'm trying to make a point) What if I burned a picture of Martin Luther King Jr or wrote nasty things on that. Would that be alright to do?!
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Now if only I could change to Mr Fat instead of Miss round and plump.

unkwon

Thats like me if I where on a rampage calling you guys hippies and commies! Does' that sound polite and nice!? Would you like it if I where to talk how great fox news is or how the Ku Klux Klan are the more wonderfull people and all the blacks and colored people need to move back china!?(I know thats not true but I'm trying to make a point) What if I burned a picture of Martin Luther King Jr or wrote nasty things on that. Would that be alright to do?!

There's a difference between not liking something and not letting something be allowed. The interesting and wonderful catch about free speech is that it leaves one suspectable to counter-arguments. There's no need to disallow something from being said when it'll just be countered by other people exercising their own freedom of speech.
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"I have captured the enemy for meat testing! Praise me! PRAISE ME!!!" -GIR
Wi-Fi ID: 1627 8934 4983 8539

Caster13

There's a difference between not liking something and not letting something be allowed. The interesting and wonderful catch about free speech is that it leaves one suspectable to counter-arguments. There's no need to disallow something from being said when it'll just be countered by other people exercising their own freedom of speech.

Yea I know. Helll I'll burn the flag if I have too. But only if that means F you to the Modern goverment. IF old king George changes the American Flag I will ONLY burn that flag and that flag only.

Anyhow I do apologize for what I said I was just in a bad mood and I also like to do things from a diffrent point of view. It's always good to have a balance of things around here and there. If everybody always agreed to the same thing wheres the fun in that!?

Seriously I also debate to pratice debating as I always picking the loosing side as it's the hardest to do! It's ALOT harder to defend Censorship than you think. I may look like a dumb ass republician and I probubly am, even though I deny it. But it's worth a shot anyway just because nobody seems to try.

I'm against flag burning law only because you DO have to burn it when the flag is disecrated! However I don't see how burning the flag as a way of speech is going to do any good, it seems to show you hate america in the way your forfathers ment it, Not in the way the Goverment has destroyed ourforfathers idealisms. What am I kidding I'm just a stupid republician anyway.
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Now if only I could change to Mr Fat instead of Miss round and plump.

Shortdude123

I understand your position unkwon, I really do. You hold dear to symbols.

I don't, however. The flag to me is nothing but material that has some sort of design. I think my pride and love for certain American values goes much deeper than some rectangle with stars and stripes.

You however, are one who could never burn a flag because you value you symbols. Me? Not really.

I think burning a flag actively demonstrates a principle that our troops are [supposedly] fighting for (well, not in Iraq or Vietnam, or any other war since WWII), and therefore supports them even more.



Censorship, in my mind, is a terrible terrible thing that leads to the destruction of freedom.

I should give you another cookie! I'm happy that your giving me exelent reasons! You and the others are making better sense of it more and more. I admire your sense of truth and justice rather than sense of personal honor like I have, thats a good thing Shortdude thats something I need train myself into doing more. I wish I was'nt so stereotypically Klingon like. Thats my problem I've always had! I'm more concerned about HONOR than justice which is'nt a compliment!

As soon as your not "full" in the cookie system. I'll give ya another one!

We both agree censorship sucks! Thats a good thing! I'm going to back off of my statements as you make great points. I'm glad your all making good points.
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Now if only I could change to Mr Fat instead of Miss round and plump.

unkwon

Yes they ****ING DO! It's a symbol of what our forfathers did for our country! If you burn a flag because of regulations and so fourth of how you treat the flag I can occur, or if you need to survive, etc. But if you burn a flag to say it as if you hate America thats disrespecting my forfathers that helped shape our land for the better! Burning a flag is just saying **** you to the ones that died to keep this country the way it was.

Hell, burn the flag for all I care, but when your doing it your saying everything we made for the better is BS.

I like to pay my respects! You people are more concerned about your agenda than you are about anything else.

Thats my point!

Its such an extremist jump to say that, if someone burns a flag they 'hate america'. Seems like everywhere I turn people get accused of hating america. Its a very strange assuption. You have to accept that, tho your country is the greatest in the world etc, some of its citizens dont feel that way all of the time (and not without good reason).

It was obvious to me how deeply this idea runs when harry shearer (of Mr. Burns fame) was on a uk talk show singing a song about how hed like to burn all flag burners. What the ****?

It was like the reaction I got when I told an american friend '**** the queen'. He couldnt believe that I'd say such a thing about a nationalistic icon. But then, he didnt yet understand that I hate nationalism.

Burning a flag isnt saying **** you to anyone that may have died valiently, and its not saying everything good about the country is BS.

When done as a political statement, flag-burning is saying **** you to the apects of the country and its governement that are wrong. And ultimately its just a piece of cloth that are usually made in taiwan. You can't destroy what the flag stands for in the way youre implying, but the burning of it is itself a symbol of the desruction of 'all what makes your country great' by its current leaders and policies.

The flag is symbolic, and the burning of it is also.

shinlee

you gotta be patriot to love your country .

Is your 'country': the land, the people, or the government?

shinlee

you gotta be patriot to love your country . alot of people dont care about the burning of there flages clearly because they dont love there country . seriously i donno whats wrong with those people they have no pride in there own country . you gotta be proud to be a citzien of your country . im australian and every proud. well thats what i think anyway

Rob's gonna hate me for this, but "Patriotism is supporting your country all of the time, and your government when it deserves it"

You can't say I don't care about my country just because a symbol is being burned. First off, you don't know one's motivation for burning the flag. It could be:

To protest the current government
To protest the country's ideals
To protest certain aspects of your country
To demonstrate something otherwise (like free speech)

Making a crazy ass assumption that one hates their country because they disregard the burning of a flag is just dumb.
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We're all just hapless victims of knowledge and learning and such
The man you thought you licked 'em but you choked in the clutch
Brent Black, you said it yourself it's an ethereal kind of flu
A Mac virus reveals the plot of the fiendish Fu Man Chu

is

Its such an extremist jump to say that, if someone burns a flag they 'hate america'. Seems like everywhere I turn people get accused of hating america. Its a very strange assuption. You have to accept that, tho your country is the greatest in the world etc, some of its citizens dont feel that way all of the time (and not without good reason).

It was obvious to me how deeply this idea runs when harry shearer (of Mr. Burns fame) was on a uk talk show singing a song about how hed like to burn all flag burners. What the ****?

It was like the reaction I got when I told an american friend '**** the queen'. He couldnt believe that I'd say such a thing about a nationalistic icon. But then, he didnt yet understand that I hate nationalism.

Burning a flag isnt saying **** you to anyone that may have died valiently, and its not saying everything good about the country is BS.

When done as a political statement, flag-burning is saying **** you to the apects of the country and its governement that are wrong. And ultimately its just a piece of cloth that are usually made in taiwan. You can't destroy what the flag stands for in the way youre implying, but the burning of it is itself a symbol of the desruction of 'all what makes your country great' by its current leaders and policies.

The flag is symbolic, and the burning of it is also.

I think I already got the point but thanks anyways.

While I'll dissagree in some sense, you are FINALY making better points about flag burning than just saying Free Speech which is good and better than saying a flag is nothing. You should do that more offten.
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Now if only I could change to Mr Fat instead of Miss round and plump.

... citing a Colorado law that makes it illegal to display foreign flags permanently in schools.

What? Why?
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