Nerd Mentality

WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.

Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf

He added that the report warns about the hazards that the chemical weapons could still pose to coalition troops in Iraq.

"The purity of the agents inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal," Santorum read from the document.

"This says weapons have been discovered, more weapons exist and they state that Iraq was not a WMD-free zone, that there are continuing threats from the materials that are or may still be in Iraq," said Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s. But they do show that Saddam Hussein was lying when he said all weapons had been destroyed, and it shows that years of on-again, off-again weapons inspections did not uncover these munitions.

Hoekstra said the report, completed in April but only declassified now, shows that "there is still a lot about Iraq that we don't fully understand."

Asked why the Bush administration, if it had known about the information since April or earlier, didn't advertise it, Hoekstra conjectured that the president has been forward-looking and concentrating on the development of a secure government in Iraq.

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

The official said the findings did raise questions about the years of weapons inspections that had not resulted in locating the fairly sizeable stash of chemical weapons. And he noted that it may say something about Hussein's intent and desire. The report does suggest that some of the weapons were likely put on the black market and may have been used outside Iraq.

He also said that the Defense Department statement shortly after the March 2003 invasion saying that "we had all known weapons facilities secured," has proven itself to be untrue.

"It turned out the whole country was an ammo dump," he said, adding that on more than one occasion, a conventional weapons site has been uncovered and chemical weapons have been discovered mixed within them.

Hoekstra and Santorum lamented that Americans were given the impression after a 16-month search conducted by the Iraq Survey Group that the evidence of continuing research and development of weapons of mass destruction was insignificant. But the National Ground Intelligence Center took up where the ISG left off when it completed its report in November 2004, and in the process of collecting intelligence for the purpose of force protection for soldiers and sailors still on the ground in Iraq, has shown that the weapons inspections were incomplete, they and others have said.

"We know it was there, in place, it just wasn't operative when inspectors got there after the war, but we know what the inspectors found from talking with the scientists in Iraq that it could have been cranked up immediately, and that's what Saddam had planned to do if the sanctions against Iraq had halted and they were certainly headed in that direction," said Fred Barnes, editor of The Weekly Standard and a FOX News contributor.

"It is significant. Perhaps, the administration just, they think they weathered the debate over WMD being found there immediately and don't want to return to it again because things are otherwise going better for them, and then, I think, there's mindless resistance to releasing any classified documents from Iraq," Barnes said.

The release of the declassified materials comes as the Senate debates Democratic proposals to create a timetable for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. The debate has had the effect of creating disunity among Democrats, a majority of whom shrunk Wednesday from an amendment proposed by Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts to have troops to be completely withdrawn from Iraq by the middle of next year.

At the same time, congressional Republicans have stayed highly united, rallying around a White House that has seen successes in the last couple weeks, first with the death of terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, then the completion of the formation of Iraq's Cabinet and then the announcement Tuesday that another key Al Qaeda in Iraq leader, "religious emir" Mansour Suleiman Mansour Khalifi al-Mashhadani, or Sheik Mansour, was also killed in a U.S. airstrike.

Santorum pointed out that during Wednesday's debate, several Senate Democrats said that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, a claim, he said, that the declassified document proves is untrue.

"This is an incredibly — in my mind — significant finding. The idea that, as my colleagues have repeatedly said in this debate on the other side of the aisle, that there are no weapons of mass destruction, is in fact false," he said.

As a result of this new information, under the aegis of his chairmanship, Hoekstra said he is going to ask for more reporting by the various intelligence agencies about weapons of mass destruction.

"We are working on the declassification of the report. We are going to do a thorough search of what additional reports exist in the intelligence community. And we are going to put additional pressure on the Department of Defense and the folks in Iraq to more fully pursue a complete investigation of what existed in Iraq before the war," Hoekstra said.

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Joester

So three years after they start finding them, they tell us now?

"It is significant. Perhaps, the administration just, they think they weathered the debate over WMD being found there immediately and don't want to return to it again because things are otherwise going better for them, and then, I think, there's mindless resistance to releasing any classified documents from Iraq," Barnes said.

So, Bush got burned over WMDs and doesn't want anything to do with the subject anymore, fearing further burnination? Santorum did say he heard about the documents from outside White House. Rove or someone else leaving breadcrumbs? Maybe all that stuff about Syria, Lebanon, and Sudan taking in the weapons and Libya being Saddam's nuclear workshop will turn out to be true after all.
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So, we went to war over 500 chemical munitions?

And only 15 warheads caused 5000 deaths when Saddam used them in the 86!
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Assman

And only 15 warheads caused 5000 deaths when Saddam used them in the 86!

WHAT?! You're saying people were killed in an uprising against a government, and we have to go free them because they can't muster the military might to defeat their dictator?! Oh YEAH! We've got to save ALL the countries that have got the same thing going on to spread democracy even though the people we're srpeading it to people who hate us and our policy! Forget about the nuclear weapons the president said they had, or the fact he said they had the ablity to reach US shores! Just ignore those Downing Street Memos that clearly state our intentions to mislead the American people! Our failed theory of neo-conservatism is worth your son or daughter dying for!
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Assman

And once again, Game Guru makes himself look like an idiot.

WHAT! That guy Game Guru doesn't agree with you and the GOPs set talking points?! Treason! Treason!

And the downing street memos don't need to be proven. They already are. When the news media releases something, and it's not true, the person who would be affected by the untruth is supposed to come out and say, "Hey that's a fake document!". President Bush nor Tony Blair have done this. So the DSMs are obviously true. It's kinda the same thing with the warrantless wiretapping story. Bush hasn't said the wiretapping exists, but he isn't denying it either, with means it exists. And if the DSMs are true, Bush lied, plain and simple. Not that you NEED the DSMs to prove he lied...
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Advance

Not everything they do in the White House is about PR. Some of it actually does involve national security.

The American public has every right to know about these WMDs... If they found them that early own... we should have been notified right away. They were quick to show us reasons for going into Iraq but they weren't quick about telling us if they were right or not.

Robin Niblett, a member of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank, says it would be easy for Americans to misunderstand the reference to intelligence being "fixed around" Iraq policy. " 'Fixed around' in British English means 'bolted on' rather than altered to fit the policy," he says. This view was seconded by the writer Christopher Hitchens. Others have dismissed this criticism, saying the British usage of the term is the same as in the U.S., and that the meaning of "fixed around" in the memo is clear from context.[67] Furthermore, the grammatical conjunction 'but' implies a contradiction which would only be grammatically correct if the phrase 'fixed around' was the American definition.

It has also been pointed by many observers that in the same exact memo, the mention of the possible use of WMD is discussed. Critics argue, this contradicts the purported "smoking gun" of the issue of WMDs being fabricated.

Michael Smith, the journalist who first reported on the Downing Street Memo, has said that he protected the identity of his source by photocopying the original and returning the original document to the source. The document was retyped from the photocopy, and the photocopy destroyed. This has led some to question the document's authenticity, but no official source has questioned it, and it has been unofficially confirmed to various news organizations, including the Washington Post, NBC, The Sunday Times and the LA Times. Several other documents obtained by Smith, and treated similarly (see below), were confirmed as genuine by the UK Foreign Office.[38] The retyping process certainly opens up the possibility of errors or mischief. It will be impossible to authenticate the contents of the copy by physical means. Because of this, the retyped copy would not be admissible in any court.

Yeah. Let's destroy the real copy.

Strike two, Game Guru.
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Smith told AP he protected the identity of the source he had obtained the documents from by typing copies of them on plain paper and destroying the originals.

This still cracks me up!
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Assman

Yeah. Let's destroy the real copy.

Strike two, Game Guru.

That doesn't make any difference, if the document's contents were false. Bush would deny that he ever said that. He'd have a huge incentive to do so. Since he hasn't denied the contents, he's either really stupid, or the memos are true. Either are possible I guess, but I don't think Bush is stupid, I think he's just...misguided.

I know you and Snuggles are going to just ignore this fact (typical of Iraq war supporters like yourselves, and Dawson especially), but it doesn't matter because the majority of the public (finally) gets it.

MrSnuggles

that is f*ckin hilarious assman. i mean come on, how stupid does he think we are?

I don't know about stupid, but let's just say you're "logically impaired". Which isn't stupid, but just means that you're very lacking in the ability to put two and two together.
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Joester

The American public has every right to know about these WMDs... If they found them that early own... we should have been notified right away. They were quick to show us reasons for going into Iraq but they weren't quick about telling us if they were right or not.

Advanced is right with what he said. Better off having them and securing them then saying we have 500 chemical weapons. It would have been like saying the night before we found Saddam we announced to everyone "We know where Saddam is hiding and will be sending people there tonight. Shhhh, its a surprise." You stay quite until you know you can speak.

Game Guru

I don't know about stupid, but let's just say you're "logically impaired". Which isn't stupid, but just means that you're very lacking in the ability to put two and two together.

you ARE talking about yourself right? actually believing the "downing street memo" is real, after the guy who wrote it admitted that he didnt have the original copy? sounds pretty "logically impaired".
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MattyF

Advanced is right with what he said. Better off having them and securing them then saying we have 500 chemical weapons. It would have been like saying the night before we found Saddam we announced to everyone "We know where Saddam is hiding and will be sending people there tonight. Shhhh, its a surprise." You stay quite until you know you can speak.

The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

Finding usually means they have found them and are in the process of taking them to a secure location... or they are already there. Obviously you wouldn't tell the whole world about a lead... but you would tell them about weather or not you found what you were looking for when you FIND them.

The American public deserved to know about these weapons as soon as they were FOUND... or very shortly after.

MrSnuggles

you ARE talking about yourself right? actually believing the "downing street memo" is real, after the guy who wrote it admitted that he didnt have the original copy? sounds pretty "logically impaired".

Well duh, of course he wouldn't have the original copy. It probably had fingerprints or something of that nature on it that could be used in a court of law against the leaker. Why would you want to keep the original copy when there's no logical reason to (besides proof for people like yourself who refuse to belive your Christ loving, so-called "honest Abe" of a president). If the contents of the DSMs were false, the president and Blair would have denied them outright. He had a political incentive to do so. Since they haven't denied the memos, they must be true. It's as simple as that.
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Robjomak

Please stop flailing. You get shot down over and over so you keep bringing up more crap, which then get shot down.

You hate Bush, you're completely uninformed, we get it.

Yeah, let's end the debate here because you're right. There's no reason to debate because Republicans have God on their side and therefore they are always right! Silly me! Silly democrats for challenging the president on the war in Iraq! Why would you want to change the course?! Everything's great! Hail King George!

Mr Snuggles

man the downing street memo is as false a document as the bill burket "Bush guard story" memo, in that they are real only in the minds of deranged liberals.

The difference between the two is that Bush DENIED the gaurd story. D-E-N-I-E-D.
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Xavius

From Alan Combs: \"And Jim Angle reported this for Fox News quotes a defense official who says these were pre-1991 weapons that could not have been fired as designed because they already been degraded. And the official went on to say these are not the WMD's this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had and not the WMD's for which this country went to war. So the chest beating at this Republicans are doing tonight thinking this is a justification is not confirmed by the defense department.\"

I supported the liberation of Iraq for humanitarian reasons. I never cared about WMDs.

But you wanted WMDs, and now you've got them. It's over, Xavius.
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Yeah, let's end the debate here because you're right. There's no reason to debate because Republicans have God on their side and therefore they are always right! Silly me! Silly democrats for challenging the president on the war in Iraq! Why would you want to change the course?! Everything's great! Hail King George!

Strike 3, Game Guru. A swing and a miss!
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Assman

-was a mass murderer

Ya know. With a bout 20 Iraqis dying each day in Iraq due to being cut up, blownup, ect., I wonder how many people died because of Saddam each day. I doubt the man ordered 20 people to die each day....
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Assman

Estimates vary and are continously raised as more Iraqis come forward. Some estimates exceed 6 million civilians during his official reign depending on if one counts the WMDs used on the Kurds and the destruction of the Shia in Basera and the sounthern areas, but even these don't take into account his horrible actions before becoming a dictator. A reference point for estimating how many people died would be that US Troops found %50 of Iraqis knew of, or were related to, someone Saddam killed throughout his life.

Saddam's son used a double roller press to crush victims feet first, and then there was the electic shock rooms filled partially with water, and the underground prisons were he kept children as leverage against their families. The list goes on and on.

http://massgraves.info/p1.htm
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/cpa-iraq/pressreleases/20040224_mass_graves.html
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/27000.htm

Oh. Okay, you win THAT argument.
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Assman

I'm surprised that nobody said this yet. Since these chemical and biological weapons were pre-1991, I was expecting someone to say "RONALD REAGAN!"

RONALD REAGAN!
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Oh. Okay, you win THAT argument.

****. I've won every argument against you in this thread, son.
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Brian10488

Seriously....Smart people>Dumb people.

Fixed.
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US Senate rejects Iraq withdrawal

US forces are set to remain in Iraq for the near future
The US Senate has overwhelmingly voted against a Democratic call for US troops to begin their withdrawal from Iraq before the end of this year.
The Republican-majority Senate voted against the resolution by 86 to 13.

"Withdrawal is not an option. Surrender is not a solution," Republican Senate Majority leader Bill Frist said.

Democrats have accused Republicans of blindly following a failed strategy over the Iraq war - an issue set to dominate coming mid-term polls.

"It is long past time to change course in Iraq and start to end the president's open-ended commitment," Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said.

Opinion polls have shown public support for the war falling. The US death toll has passed 2,500.

The Senate is also expected to vote shortly on another motion put forward by the Democratic party, calling for a phased troop withdrawal that starts this year but has no firm deadline.

That motion too is expected to be defeated.

The Republicans have dismissed the two motions as "cut and run" and "cut and jog".

Political ground

The BBC's Andy Gallacher in Washington says Democrats and Republicans are using Iraq to gain political ground before November's mid-term elections.

The Democrats see the issue as a opportunity to gain votes and possibly wrest back control of Congress from the Republicans, he says.

The lower house of Congress, the House of Representatives, last week passed a largely symbolic motion backing the president's handling of the Iraq war and rejecting a deadline for withdrawing US troops.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5107490.stm
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Drunken Savior

Being selective about when you release news is not a conspiracy theory. It happens all the time.

By definition (connotations being what they are) it is indeed a conspiracy, because the hoarding of information surrounding the Iraq war is the effort of at least more than one person. The theory part is about exactly what kind of information is being withheld.

What is NOT theory, however, is the blindingly obvious opportunism/profiteering enjoyed by the well-established extended network of the members of the GOP, being a direct result of our actions in the war.

Aside from that: It's ****ing Iraq. How were they NOT going to find weapons? Hey, let's declare war on Montana. Hey look, they have guns! Of course, there's only one reason for Montanans to have guns. So they can shoot the President.

MrSnuggles

that is f*ckin hilarious assman. i mean come on, how stupid does he think we are?

Sorry, but

hahahahahahaha