Nerd Mentality

Anti-Muslim cartoon endangers Danes

DENMARK has warned its citizens to avoid Saudi Arabia as Muslim fury mounts at newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad.

Gunmen in Gaza also said any Scandinavians there risked attack.
Denmark has defended the newspaper Jyllands-Posten's right to publish the satirical drawings that seemed to portray Mohammad as a terrorist and which a Norwegian paper has run too.

Some Muslims, who deem images of prophets disrespectful and caricatures blasphemous, have threatened Danes and demanded an apology.

Saudi Arabia has recalled its envoy from Denmark and its religious leaders called for a boycott of Danish products.

Many Saudis have started boycotting Danish goods and, across the Gulf, several supermarkets pulled Scandinavian foods off the shelves after consumers complained.

The 12 cartoons were published in September, but the row erupted this month after diplomatic efforts to solve the issue failed.

One of the drawings showed Mohammad wearing a turban shaped like a bomb.

Jyllands-Posten issued an apology in a statement to Arab countries, sent to the Jordanian news agency Petra.

"The drawings are not against the Danish law but have indisputably insulted many Muslims, for which we shall apologise," the newspaper said.

Libya has closed its Copenhagen embassy, and thousands of Palestinians marched in protest yesterday.

An Iraqi militant group called for attacks on Danish and Norwegian targets, saying a boycott was not enough, a statement attributed to the Mujahidin Army said.

The internet statement called on fighters to "hit whatever targets possible belonging to these two countries and others that follow their steps". It could not be authenticated.

Denmark has about 530 troops serving in Iraq.

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen welcomed the paper's apology but did not apologise himself.

"The Danish Government cannot apologise on behalf of a Danish newspaper," Mr Rasmussen said.

"It does not work like that . . . and we have explained that to the Arab countries. Independent media are not edited by the government."

Earlier, he advised colleagues in the European Union of the situation and the bloc's executive said it might complain to the World Trade Organisation about the boycott if the Saudi Government encouraged it.

The Danish foreign ministry advised against non-essential travel to Saudi Arabia and urged Danes to be cautious in other Muslim countries.

"Danes who choose to stay in Saudi Arabia should show extraordinarily high watchfulness," it said on its website.

The Danish Red Cross said it had pulled two employees out of Gaza and one from Yemen, and Norway's foreign ministry said two Norwegian aid workers in Gaza were to leave.

Sweden warned its citizens against travelling to Gaza and the West Bank, and the Swedish consulate in Jerusalem received a fax claiming to be from Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigades demanding that all Danes and Swedes leave the area.

Source

Taking overreacting to a whole new level here.

C'mon are people really this stupid? The thought process here boggles me. Lets say a country..France for example..has a paper that decides to print a cartoon that makes fun of america and how it's filled with religous zeolots. Would you call for a boycott of all french products? I mean it's a ****ing joke. Now boycotting the paper I guess would be ok but wth is with blaming the entire nation over a comic?
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Rogue

Boycotting French products you say?

rofl ok bad example >.< the world is teh dewmed

Well then does anyone here boycott anything? If so, why?
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One of the fiercest critics of the government, "Les Guignols de l'Info" ("The News Puppets"), a daily television programme similar to Britain's satirical "Spitting Image", is a huge success. "Les Guignols" has become sharper, even crueller, since it started in 1988. Hardly anything is taboo now. Supermenteur ("Superliar"), President Jacques Chirac's alter ego, is a particular favourite. In the following exchange he is pondering Mr Chirac's legal difficulties:

‘I have found a solution! I will kill the judge so I will be left alone.'
‘But, Monsieur le président, they will find another judge.'
‘Damn, I didn't think of that. Well, I will kill all of France's judges, the entire profession. I have enough time. A judge is like a tree, you need 30 years to grow another one. By the time they've grown new judges I will be as old as Pinochet and they will let me off for ill health.'

"Les Guignols" has felt obliged to apologise only a few times—once to Mr Chirac's wife, Bernadette, whom it had portrayed masturbating with her handbag.

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The Dragons are Gone!

Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

Majin-Link δ

Where are those crazy japs? We need electronics!
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Machine Knight

Where are those crazy japs? We need electronics!

Don't you know they moved to outer space...
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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

MrSnuggles

this is a good example of the intolerance of islam. they dont want other people, non islamic people, breaking islamic law. im surprised they havent blown up the newpapers headquarters.

Well, you may be right, but some time ago some extreme christian organisations weren't all that tolerant about this poster for a theatrical play, adressing the situation of many imigrants...



How do you feel about this poster? I personally think it isn't a very appropriate but it should be tollerated.
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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

MrSnuggles

this is a good example of the intolerance of islam. they dont want other people, non islamic people, breaking islamic law. im surprised they havent blown up the newpapers headquarters.

Every religion is intolerant. Just looking at the uproar caused by christian parents at traces of eastern religion in anime shows you that. It's easy to see fault in other people and not recognize the same in yourself.

I actually quite like the "we ran out of virgins" one. If I was a muslim I imagine I'd find it pretty funny. It's more of a mockery of the suicide bombers (their actual motivations, and/or our perception of them) then Islam in general.
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Iris

Every religion is intolerant. Just looking at the uproar caused by christian parents at traces of eastern religion in anime shows you that. It's easy to see fault in other people and not recognize the same in yourself.

I actually quite like the "we ran out of virgins" one. If I was a muslim I imagine I'd find it pretty funny. It's more of a mockery of the suicide bombers (their actual motivations, and/or our perception of them) then Islam in general.

you gotta understand WHY they are mad. this violates islamic law, and they dont want ANYONE violating it, especially infidels.
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MrSnuggles

the muslims are angry because islamic law has been breached by infidels

Have they actually said this? Not saying you're lying, but is that the wording they used?

plus, there would be no international outrage at a picture like that, you wouldnt see the vatican calling for boycotts.

The Exorcist. Harry Potter. The Da Vinci Code. More than a picture in a newspaper, but that caused outrage as well. I'm not sure if the vatican ever denounced them, though (I believe they tried to ban The Exorcist).

you gotta understand WHY they are mad. this violates islamic law, and they dont want ANYONE violating it, especially infidels.

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but what about christians who want to outlaw homosexual sex because it violates christian law? Isn't that the same thing?
If you really want to get extreme, how about people who think witchcraft should be illegal becuase it's contrary to what God wants? They aren't shouting about it, but they still exist.

What's actually so bad about Muslims complaining, anyway? I mean sure, they're over-reacting and they don't have any right to control what goes into the media, but there's no harm in it as long as it isn't taken too far. They have the right to express an opinion, the same way christians have a right to say that Harry Potter is corrupting America's youth.
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MrSnuggles

any christian that wants to ban witchcraft or homosexual sex is an idiot. i dont know how many people actually would support something like that.

Indeed, just like the Muslims complaining about drawings are idiots, right? But you're generalizing a bit on that issue.

however, it looks like entire countries are up in arms over this.

We're getting news of this by way of the media, which has a way of distorting things a tad, as I'm sure you know. They're obviously going to focus on the Muslims who are going crazy, becuase "meanwhile, here are some Muslims not complaining about anything" doesn't make for an interesting story. Entire countries may very well be up in arms over this, but I have my doubts.

things like the davinci code are different than simple drawings. the davinci code is an attempt to re-write the history of the catholic church and the christian faith. i would understand muslim outrage over something like that.

Books like the Da Vinci Code are fiction, though. The author doesn't even believe in the whole magdelene conspiracy theory. I would imagine anyone who is safe in their faith would have a good laugh at the plot, maybe look further into it out of curiosity, then forget about the whole thing.



You have to remember that many Muslims are going to be feeling victimized by this. They're getting a lot of negative stereotypes because of the terrorists, and it's understandable that cartoons like this will strike a nerve with a lot of people. It could very well be that they're using it as an excuse to vent general feelings of frustration.
If a cartoon had despicted St. Patrick holding a pipe bomb during the IRA's terror campaign, I'm sure it would have evoked similar feelings over here.
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MrSnuggles

things like the davinci code are different than simple drawings. the davinci code is an attempt to re-write the history of the catholic church and the christian faith. i would understand muslim outrage over something like that.

Ah, yes the Da Vinci code, I found this particulary funny,
The movie isn't even out yet, but still the Church is already demanding that It should be rated 18+, because "children" wouldn't be able to see the difference between fiction and non-fiction, or in other words, they wanted children to be prohibited from seeing a piece of fiction, because it contradicts with their peice of fiction...or to recapitulate: the Church would like to take advantage of the fact that children can't differentiate between fiction and reality, to indoctrinate them ...
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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

SPIEGEL ONLINE - February 2, 2006, 04:07 PM
URL: http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,398717,00.html 'It Was Worth It'

Editor Reflects on Denmark's Cartoon Jihad

By Roman Heflik in Aarhus, Denmark

In Aarhus, Denmark, an editor says the societal debate unleashed by his paper's controversial decision to publish political cartoons of the prophet Muhammad has justified his move. In the town, many residents are standing behind Jyllands-Posten.

DPA

Young Danes in Copenhagen hold up a banner reading "Sorry" in support of those offended by the newspaper Jylland-Posten. The newspaper has apologized for publishing caricatures of the prophet Muhammad, but key editors say they don't regret the decision.

The call came at five o'clock in the evening. A man warned the receptionist in English: There's a bomb in the building and it's going to go off in 10 minutes. A few seconds later, more than 200 employees -- editors, secretaries and printing staff -- fled the offices of Jyllands-Posten in Denmark's second-largest city, Aarhus. The police quickly turned up on the scene, as did the journalists, photographers and satellite trucks.

Bomb-sniffing dogs sleuthed through the editorial offices and the adjacent printing plant for traces of a bomb. A short time later, the police gave the all clear signal -- no bomb had been found.

It was the second bomb threat within 24 hours, the result of a foreign policy crisis of a scale unlike any Denmark has ever seen before. "We expected these kinds of threats," said Jyllands-Posten spokesman Tage Clausen, looking calm, composed and almost peaceful given the commotion surrounding his newspaper. The bomb threat, he said, just served to show how relevant the debate that the newspaper unleashed four months ago is in contemporary society. In September, Jyllands-Posten, Denmark's highest-circulation newspaper, published 12 caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad -- one showed him wearing a bomb as a turban with the fuse already burning.

Clausen said the paper did not intend to provoke Muslims by running the political cartoons. "Instead we wanted to show how deeply entrenched self-censorship has already become," he said. After the explosive reaction to the drawings, however, you would be hard pressed to find a Danish cartoonist willing to risk drawing any caricatures relating to Islam.

Shortly after the publication of the comics, representatives of Denmark's Muslim population began a storm of protests. Though not explicitly stated in the Koran, the Muslim religion forbids drawings or other graphic depictions of Muhammad -- and any image that spoofs the prophet is seen as an affront by many Muslims. A group of Danish Muslims unsuccessfully sought to sue the newspaper for publishing the comics. When that initiative failed, a delegation of Muslims living in Denmark took their complaints to the Middle East, where they sought help from Muslim leaders.

The resulting wave of outrage in the Arab World washed over Denmark this week unrelentingly. Saudi Arabia temporarily recalled its ambassador, Syria removed its top diplomat and Libya closed its embassy. In Arab countries, Danish products were boycotted and its trademark red and white flag burned in public demonstrations of outrage.

The Jyllands-Posten office received bomb threats and its employees were flooded with death threats by telephone and post, the paper's political editor, Joern Mikkelsen confirmed. But Mikkelsen said the editors at the paper remained strong. "We're not afraid," he said, "but this has made us more reflective."

Free speech proponent or provocateur?

For his part, Mikkelsen also seemed at relative ease on Wednesday, at least given the stakes the crisis could have for Denmark's image abroad. It may be seen as a pariah in the Arab world, but the conservative Jyllands-Posten will be seen by some now as a trailblazer in the fight freedom of the press. "Was it worth it?" Mikkelsen asked rhetorically and pausing briefly before answering: "Yes, it was worth it."

Mikkelsen said the subsequent debate over who is or isn't entitled to criticize a religion only served to further legitimize his paper's decision to run the comics.

Mikkelsen said the paper had not violated ethics or even the law, but it had nevertheless apologized to all those who were offended by the caricatures. "Of course you can ask yourself if the drawings were a bit naive," he concedes. "But in the end, this doesn't have to do with the pictures anymore -- I mean, who has even seen them?" Instead, the issue has been transformed into a conflict of civilizations.

Mikkelsen said he was pleased by the fact that other European papers, like Paris's France Soir or Berlin's Die Welt had chosen to print the caricatures in solidarity.

The regional newspaper Stiftstidende is located just a few kilometers down the road from from Mikkelsen's office. The paper's editor-in-chief, Flemming Moenster, said the comic scandal had also been felt in his newsroom. "The intense reactions to the J-P drawings have certainly frightened us," he admitted. But he said the paper wouldn't permit itself to be muzzled under pressure. "We could still write a critical article on the issue of Islam tomorrow," he said, assuringly. Nevertheless, he said the scuffle had created a situation that would force newspapers to take more time in the future to consider whether stories they publish would hurt people's feelings -- and whether the story is important enough to take that risk. "But we will continue to print stories that are important and necessary," he said.

"Censorship isn't our aim"

Meanwhile, Imam Akkari, who led the delegation that sought help from the Arab World in dealing with prejudices against Denmark's Muslim community, said it wasn't his intention to stymie the right of free speech to the country's journalists.

"Our intention was never to introduce censorship or to ban criticism of issues related to religion," Akkari emphasized. In recent years though, he points out, the Danish media focused an inordinate amount of attention on Muslim communities. "But now we are worried that the problem is escalating and that some people might get the wrong idea," he said. Akkari strongly condemned the bomb threat levelled against Jyllands-Posten and is quick to emphasize that he is dedicated to "the political path of discussion."

But despite his conciliatory tone, Danish repugnance for the harsh reaction to the caricatures among Denmark's Muslims is growing. "I can understand if someone feels their religious sensibilities have been offended," said Martin, a 25-year-old bicycle salesman. "But burning the Danish flag? That's going too far."

"In Denmark, we love irony and sarcasm," said Eminie Ehlers, 23. "I can't imagine living in a country where I am no longer allowed to voice my free opinion." Her companion Tonni Soerensen agreed. "The Muslim reaction was exaggerated in the extreme," he said. "When these imams go around telling everybody how bad we are, it's like a stab in the back." After all, he adds, the door was opened to Denmark's immigrants.

Other Aarhus inhabitants went even further. "If they don't agree with the freedom of the press, then they should go back home," said Anne Grethe, a 59-year-old who refused to give her last name. Jen, too, wanted to remain anonymous. "Most Muslims don't want this conflict," the 33-year-old said. "But I can't help thinking, if Danish companies have to lay people off as a result of the boycott, then it should be the Muslim employees who are let go first."

The escalation that concerns Akkari seems already to have arrived.

This has completly shocked me. I mean they have blown this so out of proportion its not even funny. It makes me wonder if these people have any sanity at all. Saudi Arabia temporarily recalled its ambassador, Syria removed its top diplomat, Libya closed its embassy, and burning the danish flag in protest? OVER A COMIC! Now if a political leader or somethng like that made a comment I might understand a bit but this isn't anywhere close to that.
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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

The United States blasted the publication by European newspapers of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed as unacceptable incitement to religious or ethnic hatred.

"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the beliefs of Muslims," State Department spokesman Justin Higgins said when queried about the furore sparked by the cartoons which first appeared in a Danish newspaper.

"We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility," Higgins told AFP.

"Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable. We call for tolerance and respect for all communities and for their religious beliefs and practices."

The cartoons have caused an international furore, with protests in many Muslim nations and from Muslim political leaders.

While many European newspapers have turned the publication into a free speech debate no major US newspaper has published the cartoons.

Editors at several US news organizations told AFP they were covering the escalating row but had decided not to reprint them or air them on television out of respect for their readers or viewers.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/03/060203161134.7zd6bpnp.html

I am appalled by this particular statement from the State Department:

"We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility," Higgins told AFP.

The State Department should be endorsing freedom of expression not fueling the flames of censorship.

Crusader

The State Department should be endorsing freedom of expression not fueling the flames of censorship.

100% agree with you

This has been blown so out of proportion and is really showing who doesn't have a backbone in there body.
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Crusader

The Muslim repsonse to those cartoons is spiraling out of control. In Damascus, the Danish embassy has been set on fire. The widespread anger and now violence that is coming from Muslims around the world is very dismaying.

The worst thing that we can do right now is to let such hostility force us into self-censorship and fear.

I weep for humanity

Also I totally agree with you Crusader.

jazzman do you have any sources that backup what you are saying?
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Machine Knight

I weep for humanity

Also I totally agree with you Crusader.

jazzman do you have any sources that backup what you are saying?

Yeah. It was a bit hard to find the actual article, but here it is.

If you get rid of the Danes, you'll have to keep paying the Danegeld
By Charles Moore
(Filed: 04/02/2006)

It's some time since I visited Palestine, so I may be out of date, but I don't remember seeing many Danish flags on sale there. Not much demand, I suppose. I raise the question because, as soon as the row about the cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed in Jyllands-Posten broke, angry Muslims popped up in Gaza City, and many other places, well supplied with Danish flags ready to burn. (In doing so, by the way, they offered a mortal insult to the most sacred symbol of my own religion, Christianity, since the Danish flag has a cross on it, but let that pass.)

Why were those Danish flags to hand? Who built up the stockpile so that they could be quickly dragged out right across the Muslim world and burnt where television cameras would come and look? The more you study this story of "spontaneous" Muslim rage, the odder it seems.

The complained-of cartoons first appeared in October; they have provoked such fury only now. As reported in this newspaper yesterday, it turns out that a group of Danish imams circulated the images to brethren in Muslim countries. When they did so, they included in their package three other, much more offensive cartoons which had not appeared in Jyllands-Posten but were lumped together so that many thought they had.

It rather looks as if the anger with which all Muslims are said to be burning needed some pretty determined stoking. Peter Mandelson, who seems to think that his job as European Trade Commissioner entitles him to pronounce on matters of faith and morals, accuses the papers that republished the cartoons of "adding fuel to the flames"; but those flames were lit (literally, as well as figuratively) by well-organised, radical Muslims who wanted other Muslims to get furious. How this network has operated would make a cracking piece of investigative journalism.

Now the BBC announces that the head of the International Association of Muslim Scholars has called for an "international day of anger" about the cartoons. It did not name this scholar, or tell us who he is. He is Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi. According to Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, Qaradawi is like Pope John XXIII for Catholics, "the most progressive force for change" in the Muslim world.

Yet if you look up Qaradawi's pronouncements, you find that he sympathises with the judicial killing of homosexuals, and wants the rejection of dialogue with Jews in favour of "the sword and the rifle". He is very keen on suicide bombing, especially if the people who blow themselves up are children - "we have the children bomb". This is a man for whom a single "day of anger" is surely little different from the other 364 days of the year.

Which leads me to question the extreme tenderness with which so many governments and media outlets in the West treat these outbursts of outrage. It is assumed that Muslims have a common, almost always bristling, view about their faith, which must be respected. Of course it is right that people's deeply held beliefs should be treated courteously, but it is a great mistake - made out of ignorance - to assume that those who shout the loudest are the most representative.

This was the error in the case in Luton, where a schoolgirl's desire to wear the jilbab was upheld in the erroneous belief that this is what Islam demands. In fact, the girl was backed by an extremist group, and most of the other Muslims at the school showed no inclination to dress in full-length gowns like her. It's as if the Muslim world decided that the views of the Rev Ian Paisley represented the whole of authentic Christianity.

There is no reason to doubt that Muslims worry very much about depictions of Mohammed. Like many, chiefly Protestant, Christians, they fear idolatry. But, as I write, I have beside me a learned book about Islamic art and architecture which shows numerous Muslim paintings from Turkey, Persia, Arabia and so on. These depict the Prophet preaching, having visions, being fed by his wet nurse, going on his Night-Journey to heaven, etc. The truth is that in Islam, as in Christianity, not everyone agrees about what is permissible.

Some of these depictions are in Western museums. What will the authorities do if the puritan factions within Islam start calling for them to be removed from display (this call has been made, by the way, about a medieval Christian depiction of the Prophet in Bologna)? Will their feeling of "offence" outweigh the rights of everyone else?

Obviously, in the case of the Danish pictures, there was no danger of idolatry, since the pictures were unflattering. The problem, rather, was insult. But I am a bit confused about why someone like Qaradawi thinks it is insulting to show the Prophet's turban turned into a bomb, as one of the cartoons does. He never stops telling us that Islam commands its followers to blow other people up.

If we take fright whenever extreme Muslims complain, we put more power in their hands. If the Religious Hatred Bill had passed unamended this week, it would have been an open invitation to any Muslim who likes getting angry to try to back his anger with the force of law. Even in its emasculated state, the Bill will still encourage him, thus stirring the ill-feeling its authors say they want to suppress.

On the Today programme yesterday, Stewart Lee, author of Jerry Springer: The Opera - in which Jesus appears wearing nappies - let the cat out of the bag. He suggested that it was fine to offend Christians because they had themselves degraded their iconography; Islam, however, has always been more "conscientious about protecting the brand".

The implication of the remark is fascinating. It is that the only people whose feelings artists, newspapers and so on should consider are those who protest violently. The fact that Christians nowadays do not threaten to blow up art galleries, invade television studios or kill writers and producers does not mean that their tolerance is rewarded by politeness. It means that they are insulted the more.

Right now, at the fashionable White Cube Gallery in Hoxton, you can see the latest work of Gilbert and George, mainly devoted, it is reported, to attacks on the Catholic Church. The show is called Sono***od Pictures and it features the head of Christ on the Cross replaced with that of a primitive deity. One picture includes the slogan "God loves F***ing".

Like most Christians, I find this offensive, but I think I must live with the offence in the interests of freedom. If I find, however, that people who threaten violence do have the power to suppress what they dislike, why should I bother to defend freedom any more? Why shouldn't I ring up the Hon Jay Jopling, the proprietor, and tell him that I shall burn down the White Cube Gallery unless he tears Gilbert and George off the walls? I won't, I promise, but how much longer before some Christians do? The Islamist example shows that it works.

There is a great deal of talk about responsible journalism, gratuitous offence, multicultural sensitivities and so on. Jack Straw gibbers about the irresponsibility of the cartoons, but says nothing against the Muslims threatening death in response to them. I wish someone would mention the word that dominates Western culture in the face of militant Islam - fear. And then I wish someone would face it down.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/02/04/do0402.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2006/02/04/ixopinion.html
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jazzman

Yeah. It was a bit hard to find the actual article, but here it is.

Thanks
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Machine Knight

Thanks

I actually was able to find a website with all of the cartoons, even the fake ones. It's at http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
They're in the middle towards the bottom. I'm suprised people actually believed that they were part of the others, as the 12 originals all have a political message, while the 3 fakes seem to serve no purpose other than to offend people.
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Iris

This is going way too far. I mean, it's another culture we're dealing with here, we obviously don't see this the same way they do. From their perspective, the cartoons are obviously a lot more offensive.

But setting buildings on fire is just insane. This is a good example of how it's possible to be too religou

Well that would only be true if Islam called for violence, otherwise these people are not acting in accordance with their own professed religiousity.

Iris

EDIT: In the image archive thingy, there are a few images that include Gabriel. Is this the same Gabriel as in the Bible?

Yes. Muslims believe that Gabriel appeared to Mohammed.

Crusader

Yes. Muslims believe that Gabriel appeared to Mohammed.

Really? Then what religion did Gabriel come from originally?

Now that I think about it, I don't really know anything about Islam, or any religions besides christianity. I should go raid the library some day.

Please note that muslims form a majority in 57 nations. Only 1 has had any incidence of violence ( unless flag burning is violence) in a nation which attempts to blind the people from it's own curroption (syria) by constanty laying the blame on the west.

Yep, good point.
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Really? Then what religion did Gabriel come from originally?

Now that I think about it, I don't really know anything about Islam, or any religions besides christianity. I should go raid the library some day.

Muslims believe in Jesus and Moses and thier messages. But they believe that Christianity and Judaism have been curropted and that Islam corrects those flaws (ie Jesus is a prophet not a god).

burning_phoneix

Muslims believe in Jesus and Moses and thier messages. But they believe that Christianity and Judaism have been curropted and that Islam corrects those flaws

So the two religions are linked, kind of how christianity and judaism are? Never knew that. Interesting.

(ie Jesus is a prophet not a god).

That's what I believe
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Crusader

The State Department should be endorsing freedom of expression not fueling the flames of censorship.

I wouldn't exactly say that the State Department is promoting censorship; merely responsibility.

Self-restraint is different than being oppressed by an outside source.
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Caster13

I wouldn't exactly say that the State Department is promoting censorship; merely responsibility.

Self-restraint is different than being oppressed by an outside source.

I find your statement telling. After all, those Danish cartoons were published as part of an article discussing self-censorship, if memory serves. My point is not that the media should be above criticism, but that journalists and columnists should not have to dress up their opinions with political correctness in order to avoid death threats.

Caster13

I wouldn't exactly say that the State Department is promoting censorship; merely responsibility.

Self-restraint is different than being oppressed by an outside source.

Well, I disagree, yes those cartoons may have crossed a certain line, but that's exactly what good, political cartoons tend to do, what they should do, they poke fun at the things wrong with contemporary society, they break taboo's, they cross lines...

And it is likely and perfectly normal that in that process people will be offended by some of those cartoons, but that doesn't mean those cartoons should be prohibited or certainly not censored. The freedom of speech is more important than any religion, 'cause if we start today with censoring for the sake of some religious icon, what'll stop us tomorrow from censoring something else tomorrow, where will it end? The freedom of speech is a right that can only exist if it covers any opinion, how awful, or bigot that opinion may be...if you take just the smallest part away from that right it'll be gone, it's one of those rare things, where it's black or white, everything or nothing...

Of course some people's opinions aren't the most pleasant, let alone truthful to be confronted with, and likely there will always be people offended by those opinions but that shouldn't take away their right to that opinion, and the expression of it... but in the case of those cartoons, the biggest problem is that those riots and protest are mostly guided/endorsed by some of the most undemocratic political regimes in the world, not by the massive discontent of the local Muslims. It's like the editor of the Danish newspaper said, those protest can only take place when those regimes endorse them, because in those countries there is no freedom of speech, those cartoons could have only been spread there on such a scale if the governments supported it... as already has been said it's a political strategy to draw attention away from thing that are really going wrong in the Middle-East, like Hamas winning the Palestinian elections, and Iran's nuclear program...
The cartoons themselves on the other hand, if you look at them, they aren't at all bad, some of them address real current day issues like Muslim-terrorism, perhaps they generalize too much, but it's hard to lay nuances in such cartoons, then again some were indeed rather offensive, but certainly they are not a worthy cause for what is going on about them today, buy then again maybe if I were muslim, I would find it far worse, I don't know, but even then, there shouldn't be touched at the freedom of speech...




NB: this cartoon (I think it would be called "the yawning Christ" in English) recently (5 feb 2006) won a international cartoonfestival, and it wasn't made by a christian, yet I don't see any riots of christian origin now, strange or maybe not...
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Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.

IRAN'S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.
"It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust," said Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper - which is published by Teheran's conservative municipality.

He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression.

"The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let's see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons," he said.

Iran's fiercely anti-Israeli regime is supportive of so-called Holocaust revisionist historians, who maintain the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews as well as other groups during World War II has been either invented or exaggerated.

Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad prompted international anger when he dismissed the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews as a "myth" used to justify the creation of Israel.

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Mr Mortazavi said tomorrow's edition of the paper will invite cartoonists to enter the competition, with "private individuals" offering gold coins to the best 12 artists - the same number of cartoons that appeared in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten.

Last week, the Iranian foreign ministry also invited British Prime Minister Tony Blair to Teheran to take part in a planned conference on the Holocaust, even though the idea has been branded by Mr Blair as "shocking, ridiculous, stupid".

Mr Blair also said Mr Ahmadinejad "should come and see the evidence of the Holocaust himself in the countries of Europe", to which Iran responded by saying it was willing to send a team of "independent investigators".

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"If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action." -Mises

"I would remind you, that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice...and let me remind you also, that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Goldwater

"The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let's see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons," he said.

he does have a point...




this is seriously getting out of hand...
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The Dragons are Gone!

Batist - The Frenchy formerly known as Majinbuu -

... and Knight of Cydonia. die. just die. die in a hellpit of fire from satan's ass.