Nerd Mentality

Although not presented as an official church position, the Vatican newspaper published an article this week labeling as "correct" the decision by a judge in Pennsylvania last month that the concept of intelligent design could not be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution.

But the article, in the Vatican's most visible publication, seemed notable, given the strength of the comments on a delicate question much debated under the new pope, Benedict XVI.

"If the model proposed by Darwin is not considered sufficient, one should search for another one," Fiorenzo Facchini, a professor of evolutionary biology at the University of Bologna, wrote in the Jan. 16-17 edition of the paper, L'Osservatore Romano.

"But it is not correct from a methodological point of view to stray from the field of science while pretending to do science," he wrote. "It only creates confusion between the scientific plane and those that are philosophical or religious."

In July, Christoph Schönborn, an Austrian cardinal who is close to Benedict, seemed to call into question what has been official church teaching for years: that Catholicism and evolution are not necessarily at odds.

In an opinion piece in The New York Times, he played down a 1996 letter by Pope John Paul II that evolution was "more than a hypothesis."

He added, "Evolution in the sense of common ancestry might be true, but evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense - an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection - is not."

In the Pennsylvania case, a U.S. federal judge ruled that it was unconstitutional for a school district in Dover to present intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in high school biology courses. The judge called it a religious viewpoint that advanced "a particular version of Christianity."

The case, the first in the United States to test the legal merits of intelligent design - which posits that biological life is so complex that it must have been designed by an intelligent source - was a stinging rebuke to advocates of the concept and provided strong support for scientists who have fought to bar it from the science curriculum.

Benedict himself has signaled an interest in the issue of evolution at least twice, prompting questions about where exactly he stood on the question of intelligent design.

In April, when he was formally installed as pope, he said human beings "are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution." In November, he called the creation of the universe an "intelligent project," wording lauded by intelligent-design supporters.

Many Catholic scientists have criticized intelligent design, notably the Reverend George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory. "Intelligent design isn't science, even though it pretends to be," he said in November, according to the Italian press service ANSA. "Intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science."

In October, Schönborn sought to clarify his remarks, saying that he meant to question not the science of evolution but what he called "evolutionism," or an attempt to use the theory to rule out the hand of God in creation.

"I see no difficulty in joining belief in the creator with the theory of evolution, but under the prerequisite that the borders of scientific theory are maintained," the cardinal said in a speech in Vienna.

In the Osservatore article, Facchini similarly wrote that scientists could not rule out a divine "superior design" to creation and the history of mankind. But he said that Catholic thought did not rule out that that design could take place through an evolutionary process.

"God's project of creation can be carried out through secondary causes in the natural course of events, without having to think of miraculous interventions that point in this or that direction," he wrote.

Neither Facchini nor the editors of L'Osservatore could immediately be reached for comment.

Source

Really a good read to see where the church community stands on this. It's always important to keep religion and science seperate. Good to know some members of the church share that idea.
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Majinbuu

Religion is a waste of time. Science is the way to go.

i won't stop you from going to church to waste your time to learn hate and become a bigot, it's your choice.

how openminded of you.
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MrSnuggles

how openminded of you.

more so then you you anti-islamic fascist.
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MrSnuggles

funny you see ME as the fascist and not the muslims that would sooner saw your head off then live peacefully beside you.

Are you saying all muslims or the ones involved with Alqueda?
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xyxx

majinbuu, you are a terrible person.

You can call me a terrible person for not believing in crap.

I think it's best to believe in the mighty Zeus then your terrible fiction?
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zig

I have the display of signatures turned off because it is a dumb concept and you are dumb if you have one.

TendoGamer

I think of it this way. Science proves a lot of things, but why is there science?

because jesus made science for people to stop believing in the made up crap they made in the bible.
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TendoGamer

Science proves a lot of things, but why is there science?

Because we are human beings.
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BEan

Are you saying all muslims or the ones involved with Alqueda?

any muslim involved in terrorism, any muslim that supports terrorism, and any muslim that supports it by not standing up against it.
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Majinbuu

because jesus made science for people to stop believing in the made up crap they made in the bible.

Wow.
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"Evolution in the sense of common ancestry might be true, but evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense - an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection - is not."

And that's where ID differs.

People, that article is deceptively written. The beginning is basically an editorial from a college professor who lives near the Vatican remarking on American legal proceedings. The latter part is from Catholic church documents. The church hasn't said anything about this ruling, and they are against taking evolution too far - like the part I quoted, they certainly don't accept that it's just a random unplanned development all through the millenia.

Majinbuu

You can call me a terrible person for not believing in crap.

I think it's best to believe in the mighty Zeus then your terrible fiction?

I am calling you a terrible person for bashing religion. Thats literally like bashing black people, gays, etc.

How are you still posting here? If I were admin, I would have you banned.

Mahatma Ghandi

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Brawl- 2320-5856-7241

xyxx

I am calling you a terrible person for bashing religion. Thats literally like bashing black people, gays, etc.

How are you still posting here? If I were admin, I would have you banned.

because i believe religion is the source of all evil i'm a terrible person?

ha.

like it or not, i do believe in god, but i don't believe in religious cults like christianity and all other religions that promote hatred.
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MrSnuggles

daisy, if i may, do you know how women are treated in islamic society?

Considering I minored in Theology, I'd like to think that I have at least a good working knowledge of various religions, and yes I'm aware of how women are treated in certain sects of the Islamic society. My personal beliefs may differ from theirs, but that doesn't give me the right to assume that all Muslims are terrorists. Making such sweeping generalizations just makes you look like an uneducated ass.

any muslim involved in terrorism, any muslim that supports terrorism, and any muslim that supports it by not standing up against it.

am i an ass for expecting muslims to stand up and oppose the mass murder happening in the name of their god?
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MrSnuggles

im not assuming all muslims are terrorists, just:

am i an ass for expecting muslims to stand up and oppose the mass murder happening in the name of their god?

The problem is, when they do stand up against the terrorists, when posters like me and other link to news articles showing Islams denouncing terrorism, you brush it off and say "that's not good enough" and continue to insinuate that they secret support the terrorists when everybody has their backs turned.
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Daisy

I think assuming that all people who follow a certain religion are "bigots" and are being taught to "hate" is just as bad.

Buu, if you slam anyone again based on their religious beliefs, you will be banned. Same goes for anyone else.

Christians =/= bigots
Muslims =/= terrorists

There may very well be some bad apples in the bunch but how dare any of you claim that because of them their entire system of beliefs is horrible. You don't agree with their religion, fine, but don't bash on anyone because of it.

I'm not saying all christians are all bigots and whatnot. never in my life have i ever said that. I'm a catholic myself (i'm not practising it though). But I hate that religions are trying to inposse there views in society.

"Gays shouldn't marry and shouldn't adopt children.
People shouldn't wear condoms because it is sinful.
women are treated like trash.
Your religion sucks, so you better convert to mine."

and those type of arguments. (those 4 sentences aren't targeted towards christianity only)

Why can't religious people just go in there own corner with themselves and live non religious people and others like myself alone?

I believe in god, and i'm not religious, and I don't want to hear religious crap about gays not having the right to adopt kids because it is sinful according to a 1500 year old book that was re-written hundreds of times by hundreds of different people.

Non-religious gay people also don't care about your crap, so why enforce it into the law? It's sickening.

religion is the cause of all conflicts.

World War II is a big example. The Crusades, and many many many other wars. The Cold War was religious in one way too.

The war on terror, in one way, is also religious.

Religious people individuels aren't bad people. But when stacked together, they make one hate machine.
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Majinbuu

'm not saying all christians are all bigots and whatnot. never in my life have i ever said that.

Majinbuu

i won't stop you from going to church to waste your time to learn hate and become a bigot, it's your choice.

Now, there is a fine difference between saying that churches teach bigotry and that all Christians are bigots (since not all Christians go to a church), but Buu, you at least left the impression that you think church goers are indoctrinated in bigotry (which is very close to saying that they are bigots).

Majinbuu

religion is the cause of all conflicts.

World War II is a big example. The Crusades, and many many many other wars. The Cold War was religious in one way too.

Would you mind explaining how religion caused World War II? While you're at it, how about World War I? And how about the Franco-Prussian War? And what about the Russo-Japanese War? And what about the Seven Weeks War?

When you're done explaining how religion is the primary or sole cause of those wars, then I will offer you some more examples to explain.

Majinbuu

But I hate that religions are trying to inposse there views in society.

Well, it is inevitable that religions will have an impact on society. It is another matter about whether or not organized religions should have direct influence over the law making process. I would say that religions should not have direct legislative, executive, or judicial power in the secular government. However, it is impossible to prevent religiously influenced ideas from finding their way into laws. To do otherwise would be undemocratic.

Crusader

Now, there is a fine difference between saying that churches teach bigotry and that all Christians are bigots (since not all Christians go to a church), but Buu, you at least left the impression that you think church goers are indoctrinated in bigotry (which is very close to saying that they are bigots).

Well, that was a first , but i blame it on snuggles.

But i suppose i said church teaches bigotery, but not everybody is fooled by **** like that. i suppose...

Would you mind explaining how religion caused World War II? While you're at it, how about World War I? And how about the Franco-Prussian War? And what about the Russo-Japanese War? And what about the Seven Weeks War?

When you're done explaining how religion is the primary or sole cause of those wars, then I will offer you some more examples to explain.

i didn't mean to say religion was the cause of conflicts, but i meant they had some influences. Don't tell me the jewish genocide wasn't religious.

Well, it is inevitable that religions will have an impact on society. It is another matter about whether or not organized religions should have direct influence over the law making process. I would say that religions should not have direct legislative, executive, or judicial power in the secular government. However, it is impossible to prevent religiously influenced ideas from finding their way into laws. To do otherwise would be undemocratic.

Yes it is possible. A liberal government is very non-religious. Sure there might be some religious influences, but those religious influences are accepted in all religions. But banning gays from civil union and telling them they can't get married is a form of "hate" the gays and don't give them right. The government should be neutral when it comes to religion. seperation of state and church. The United States has a really hard time understanding that.
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MrSnuggles

daisy, if i may, do you know how women are treated in islamic society?

1 Corinthians 11:7-9 (NIV)

For a man...is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)

...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (NIV)

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent...

Oh, wait... Those aren't from the Koran, are they? They're from the New Testament. Never mind, then. (Remember: This stuff is the inspired WORD OF GOD!)

mechagouki

But why do men have one less rib than women

Seriously though WTF!!!

I really hope you're kidding. But just in case:

X-Ray of male ribs:


X-Ray of female ribs:


See, this is another urban legend. People actually believe this stuff.

There is a myth that men have one less rib than women. This stems from a misunderstood passage found in the Bible which states that Eve was created from one of Adam's rib. However, both men and women have the same number of ribs: 12 pairs or 24 total.

(source)

hencethus

X-Ray of female ribs:

Hot!
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hencethus

Oh, wait... Those aren't from the Koran, are they? They're from the New Testament. Never mind, then. (Remember: This stuff is the inspired WORD OF GOD!)

you really want to compare that to islamic treatment of women? saying that women cant be priests is quite different than making them cover their entire bodies, or murdering them for being the victim of rape.

i dont know if you are a liberal or not, but i DO NOT understand why liberals are the first ones to defend a religion that is the 100% antithesis of everything they believe in. christianity and liberalism might stand in opposition, but at the very least they agree on certain things.
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MrSnuggles

go ahead, post some articles.

How bloody short is your memory? There have been countless times in this very forum where posters like myself have linked to such articles. It's amazing that you can even hold together a cognant conversation considering that you apparently easily forget all the arguments presented against you.
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MrSnuggles

or murdering them for being the victim of rape.

"If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife." Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (NIV)

HOLY INSPIRED WORD OF GOD! Obviously God didn't consider the possibility that the girl was either intimidated or physically restrained from calling out.

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV)

If you were a woman, would you rather be raped and then stoned, or raped and then forced to marry the rapist (who just so happened to pay your pimp of a dad fifty silver shekels, you whore)?

Yeah, the Christian God is so much better than the Muslim God.

You win, Mr. Snuggles.

hencethus

"If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife." Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (NIV)

HOLY INSPIRED WORD OF GOD! Obviously God didn't consider the possibility that the girl was either intimidated or physically restrained from calling out.

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV)

If you were a woman, would you rather be raped and then stoned, or raped and then forced to marry the rapist (who just so happened to pay your pimp of a dad fifty silver shekels, you whore)?

Yeah, the Christian God is so much better than the Muslim God.

You win, Mr. Snuggles.

Well, there is an important difference between the Koran and the Bible, particularly in regards to interpretation. It is the belief of many Christians- though certainly not all if memory serves- that the Bible is the word of God in the words of men- the Christian idea of inspiration is such that men are not dictated the Bible. Now, from what I have read and learned, the general Islamic principle regarding the Koran is that it is word of God as dictated to Mohammed. That is one basic way scriptural interpretations differ.

There is one other way, and it also important. A number of Christians- and it is the stated position of the Roman Catholic Church- profess a developmental view of scripture. This means that God's saving plan developed over the centuries and the Bible documents that. What this means is that moral codes can be changed. Take for example Jesus' overturning of the lex talionis. Moving along to Islam, it is my understanding- and I must admit I am no scholar on Islam and so I speak with no recognizable authority other than what I have read- that they believe the Koran is true for all time. This means that whereas Christians do not follow the codes of the Old Testament, the Koran has no "Old Testament" and so the calls to kill homosexuals and treat women in certain ways are to be followed. There are occurrences in the Koran, though, where Mohammed abrogates certain commands, but I am fairly sure that he did not abrogate those that dealt with the treatment of women. Of course, I am no expert.

So, I do not think your attempt at establishing moral equivalence between the Koran and the Bible is wholly accurate.

Coconut

I got X-rays of my hip bones and you could totally see my wang.


That was pretty embarassing.

Why, are you like, really tiny?
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