NerdMentality | INTERVIEW: Brian Dunning

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INTERVIEW: Brian Dunning

Posted February 11th 2009 by Adam Glasgow.

Thanks to extremely vocal people like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer and Sam Harris, all standing on the shoulders of James Randi, Kurt Vonnegut, Douglas Adams and Carl Sagan, "skeptics" have been in the spotlight lately. They've written bestselling books, edited successful magazines, produced a few movies and helped change the way many people look at the world around them. Right there with these guys is Brian Dunning, public speaker and host of the popular Skeptoid podcast. I recently had the chance to ask Brian a few questions.

First off, tell us a little about yourself. Where are you from? What do you do?

My background is in computer science, and it's where I've spent my professional career, both as a CTO and independently. I've always done a lot of writing -- I even took some film directing and screenwriting courses at UCLA for a while, but mostly I've just been some guy who's always been frustrated that so few people seem to appreciate science the way I do.

You've devoted quite a lot of time and money to the promotion of good science and rational skepticism.

What made you decide to do this? Was there a moment when you just threw up your arms and said "I have to do something about this," or was it just a natural outcome of what you were doing before?

In addition to science, my real interests have always been critical thinking and writing. Before podcasting came along, I never saw a way to put them all together. Then one day I happened to browse into the podcast section of iTunes, and it was life changing. At that time I didn't know where it would lead, but I had some pet peeves I'd wanted to get off my chest, and those became the first five episodes. So it began as a creative and intellectual outlet for myself, but when it immediately started generating such a flood of positive feedback, I soon realized I had something real on my hands. Since Skeptoid works so well for me and for my listeners, I've spent virtually all my time in the past two years trying to transition it into a full-time career.

Why do you think people are so quick to buy into extraordinary claims? Do you think humans are naturally inclined to believe what they're told, especially if it's exciting?

There are as many answers to that as there are people who have beliefs. But we can still draw some general trends. People tend to believe things they can understand, and magical or metaphysical explanations are often simplest. People tend to draw comfort from beliefs that have moral or spiritual importance. People want to think that what they do has implications beyond the physical world. It takes hard work and learning to find this kind of wonder in the natural universe, and few people have the time or inclination for that kind of commitment. Turning on Oprah is much easier.

It seems to me that skepticism gained some mainstream popularity in recent years. Would you agree? If so, why do you think this is?

Things tend to polarize in cycles. Recent years in the United States have seen high-profile religious challenges to science, and when attention focuses on an issue, book sales rise on both sides of the debate. So I wouldn't agree that people as a whole are becoming more skeptical, but rather that there has been increased interest in both critical inquiry and religious fundamentalism. This will fade, and something else will take the stage to replace it. Maybe it will be another non-scientific alternative to healthcare, and you'll see increased polarization again.

You recently wrapped up shooting the pilot for "The Skeptologists," of which you are the host. Can you tell us about that? How are things progressing in terms of getting it syndicated?

It's a spec pilot for a 1-hour prime time TV show aimed directly at the overwhelming onslaught of paranormal TV shows that dominate the networks. Our expert "Skeptologists", Ph.D.s and eminent scientists all, take on some of the many harmful beliefs that are so fervently promoted to the public by snake oil salesmen and their ratings-hungry TV mouthpieces. The Skeptologists has the excitement of a network reality show mixed with the real science of a good PBS documentary. It's currently optioned, during which time we're not supposed to discuss what's happening with it. We're hoping The Skeptologists will be on your television set soon.

You're working with some pretty well known names on "The Skeptologists," including psychologist Michael Shermer and astromer Phil Plait. What's that been like?

The critical thinking community is a small one, albeit growing, and many of us already know each other pretty well. But I'll tell you one thing, it was a heck of a group to have dinner with every night. We should have sold tickets.

I don't think you would argue with me if I said that science education in America is sub-par. Why do you think things got so bad, and what can be done about it going forward?

I don't pretend to have the answer to that question. Our educational system fails in many areas, and there are a lot of smart people trying to figure out why and what can be done about it with the resources available. It's a tough problem, made even tougher by the extreme diversity of communities in the United States, and the consequent diversity of the challenges each faces. I can't do anything about that, so I try to use new media and mass media to provide a supplemental source of information that people (hopefully) want to listen to. Certainly nobody teaches you in school how to avoid being victimized by a scam alternative healthcare product, or why it's implausible to think that the world is going to end in 2012. But these are still important things to know. I try to provide that.

To date, you've produced about 130 podcasts over at Skeptoid, each one covering a different subject. Are there any that stick out in your mind as being more interesting or more controversial than the rest?

Controversy is easy. Mention religion, politics, or alternative medicine, and you'll touch off a firestorm. Illuminate people's most profoundly held beliefs, and you've got controversy in spades. What's much more difficult are the subjects that I personally find far more compelling, and that stick out as my favorites. Those are the historical topics, events in history that people believe happened in some paranormal way (Roswell, the Amityville Horror, the Philadelphia Experiment, the Missing Cosmonauts, the Bell Witch). Digging up the facts of things that happened decades or centuries ago is a lot of work, and it's ultimately more rewarding than the topics that generate garden variety controversy.

Have you ever been researching a subject only to find your own personal beliefs to be wrong in certain areas?

I get asked this question a lot, often from people expecting to hear me validate some sacred cow of theirs. I'm sorry to report that I have yet to find any validity to any supernatural claim. That doesn't mean I don't learn a lot. None of these episodes come out in their entirety off the top of my head; they require much research and checking. And I always gain a deeper understanding of the subject in the process. It's a blast.

In "Here Be Dragons" (your video introduction to critical thinking), you recommended a few books, including Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World" and James Randi's "Flim-Flam!" Anything else you've read recently that you would recommend?

My other recommendation was The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, which is not normally thought of in skeptical circles. In fact it's a scathing expose of the folly of dogma, and if you re-read it with skeptical eyes, you'll find it surprisingly applicable to the intellectual challenges we still face today. And if I could squeeze in one more, I'd recommend the American Declaration of Independence. It's a short document, it's an easy read, and it'd widely available on the Internet. It's basically a list of charges levied against the British crown for crimes committed upon the American colonists. I'd like today's anti-government conspiracy theorists, who believe that our current system is the most evil possible, to take a look at what we faced 230 years ago. This was a case of a government actually preying upon its subjects. As imperfect as our current system is, this context puts it in a much more realistic and down-to-Earth perspective.

So what's on the horizon for you? Where can we expect to see Brian Dunning in the future?

I'm working hard to make The Skeptologists a reality. My producing partner Ryan Johnson and I are also working on another series for the web called Truth Hurts, and I hope to be able to tell you more about that in the future too. I'm also looking into options for remaking Here Be Dragons with a real budget and a real release. But for the time being, you'll find me in my studio at the microphone pumping out weekly episodes, or speaking at a college or some other venue near you. Everyone come to Skeptoid.com to keep up with the latest!

Tags: Science, Brian Dunning, Interview